The rich and the poor

Of course that's good, GG13, I know there are fair employers My son's employer pays him much more, and also pays for a healthcare plan for all employees.
But many think it's OK to pay the minimum, even even they can well afford to pay more.

nadateturbe

Many employers could afford to pay much more than the living wage and still be very wealthy. But they don't.

This one does

Many employers could afford to pay much more than the living wage and still be very wealthy. But they don't.

M0nica

I did mention muslims being demonised, but this is the point, as soon as you start justifying demonisation of one group and not another. you are demonising - and this thread isn't aabout Muslims, it seems to be about billionaires.

Demonising is inherently wrong whereever and however it is done and also whether it is small scale or large scale, once it is a way of thinking it is dangerous.

Well! Give me a billion and I'd be prepared to put up with the flak!

I am not about to fill in my spa pool, because a section of society cannot afford to have one.

Rather than demonising those with money I would rather work towards ensuring the lower paid have a living wage and are not reliant on benefits to top up their income.

Communal good should come first, and that means setting fair taxes and closing the loopholes that allow many of our richest citizens to avoid paying what they should.

Agree

I did mention muslims being demonised, but this is the point, as soon as you start justifying demonisation of one group and not another. you are demonising - and this thread isn't aabout Muslims, it seems to be about billionaires.

Demonising is inherently wrong whereever and however it is done and also whether it is small scale or large scale, once it is a way of thinking it is dangerous.

Prentice

Monica I do agree with you about the demonising of certain groups of people.It is all too frequent nowadays, especially on social media.

Hmmm! Given the choice between being a billionaire and being "demonised" on social media, I think I know what I'd go for!

You would have a case, if you complained about benefit recipients or Muslims or gays being demonised.

I love swimming and if I were very rich I would have my own swimming pool - indoor pool because I would like to swim every day of the year.

However if I did win the lottery (unlikely because I never buy a lottery ticket) and got my own pool, I would feel just awful if I heard that our local community pool had been closed because of lack of funds.

Communal good should come first, and that means setting fair taxes and closing the loopholes that allow many of our richest citizens to avoid paying what they should.

The distribution of wealth in the UK may be fairer and more equal than many third world countries but does not compare well with most European countries.

worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/wealth-inequality-by-country

Monica I do agree with you about the demonising of certain groups of people.It is all too frequent nowadays, especially on social media.

maddyone

I agree with most of your post volver. However I suspect that the planning permission and workmen were obtained ages ago, and no reasonable person would say oh dear, I can’t have the pool built now, despite planning permission and plans for building pool put in place ages ago, I might upset people because we have a hot spell.

Remember we have been asked to be mindful of how much water we use, we’re not like France where over a hundred villages are having their drinking water delivered in tankers. There are no standpipes in the streets here yet.

what you say Maddyone and also I think that to cancel it now would hit the workmen who were going to do it all.
it certainly does not make me angry, it is his money to spend.

The lastn few pages of this thread have been diatribes against billioaires, and nothing about Boris Johnson. it has been demonising one group of people by people who have no idea how, as individuals they acquired their money. Some of them are crooks in one way or another, most Russian oligarchs probably fall in this group, for example, some have worked very hard building up businesses, others working to finance these businesses, some inheriting the billions.

Some are extremly generous to other causes, some have put most of their wealth into charitable foundations, others probably do not give a penny to anyone. They are as a group so various and diffeent, linked only by the fact that they have a lot of money that the ridiculous grouping and demonising that has gone on is really dangerous, I am left wondering how easily those who do this could be gradually drawn in to demonising other groups that are superficially evil in someones lexicon.

I would also point out that billionnaires are also very mobile and if they do not like a countries tax regime thay can very quickly up sticks, move to another country with a more attractive tax regime, taking with them, not only their lavish expenditure in this country, but also their charitable giving.

Doodledog Plenty of people in the States think Bill Gates is micro chipping our brains, and more than we would imagine in this country.

No, I do not know any either, but DD who is a dab hand at searching the far reaches of the internet says it is frightening, just how many there are in this country. It includes most anti-vaxxers.They have to have a reason why they are anti vaxxers. and this is one of the most common, plus others.

It’s not about demonising billionaires though. The people who think Bill Gates is microchipping our brains are bonkers, and relatively rare (I don’t know of any personally, do you?)

It’s about someone who wants to be PM and has already been Chancellor - someone who sets rules and makes laws that determine how much the rest of us have to live on - getting something for himself and his family whilst cutting funds to local authorities that provide the same thing on a shared and paid-for basis to the public.

He has every right to do it, but it’s not a good look is it?

Most rich people's money is not cash in the bank and houses. It is investments in companies. I am not talking about owning stocks and shares, but many have acquired their money by setting up and building up companies: Bill Gates, Elon Musk, Richard Branson come to mind.

Now, people like Bill Gates has transferred billions of dollars to a charitable foundation, Warren Buffet has as well, to name but two. But this has caused them immense problems because the conspiracy theory universe, and it is VERY large, have said that Bill Gates is seeking world dominance trhough his charitable giving, ditto Warren Buffet. That he is part of the shadowy 'deep government' that is a conspiracy of democrats and people like Gates and Buffet who want the world to be run by a paedophile conspiracy.

Enough to put anyone rich off giving most of their fortune to charity. Elon Musk's wealth is mainly invested in the companies he owns and runs. If he suddenly sold up and gave to charity, the companies might well go bust.

I dislike this demonising of groups of people and blaming them for all our ills. That is how pogroms start. Blaming the Jews for a countries economic ills because some of them work in banking and finance and have established successful businesses, can have results that we know about only too well.

Look around the world to day and see the demonising of the Rohinga in Burma, Christians in Pakistan, Muslims in Indi or the UK. Jews in many countries, including our own. It starts small but then takes on a life of its own.

Demonising billionaires in the UK is small beer, but it is the kind of mindless thinking that builds up to more serious things. By all means, study specific peoples finances and query their spending, but be very careful of putting people in groups to dislike and blame for things, unless you have first done a very detailed study of their lives and what they do. In this case know exactly who each individual is and how they spend their money. Many are already very generous givers to charities, of all kinds.

We have seen the effect that the withdrawal of government or lottery funds has on these organisations, with many charities having to drastically reduce their operations, and even close. the same applies to many community arts and sports programmes. The extent these organisations are dependent on donations and involvement from rich individuals, probably exceeds government and lottery funding.

GagaJo

Doodledog
It's a bit blinkered to get a pool at a time when people are being threatened with hosepipe bans and metered water.

Particularly when you are hoping to be made Prime Minister!

Indeed. It’s really not a good look, particularly so hot on the heels of the debacle over his wife’s tax status.

Shocking figures. I will never understand why people hoard money that they will never spend.

I don't mind Rishi having his fancy swimming pool. What I do object to is him telling us that he knows how the rest of us live.

But is it right they should accumulate so much money in the first place?

Maybe poor people would like the warm glow which comes from being able to give.

The UK now has 177 billionaires, according to the new Sunday Times Rich List. The combined wealth of the UK's billionaires stands at £653bn. the richest 250 people in the UK this year are worth £710bn.

If they paid 10% of their wealth in extra tax, they could fund the entire schools budget (£53.8bn) and more.

If these people are so generous, I'm sure they wouldn't mind paying a bit extra.

Many wealthy people keep their giving private and do not like parading it. Many more people give money to all kinds of courses than anybody ever realises.

No one realised how generous george Michael was until he died. Many peoples charitable giving is kept quiet even then.

Sago, your friends are wonderful. Would that everyone was the same. I know some very wealthy employers who are still paying longserving loyal employees minimum wage.

Sago your friends do sound like very decent folk, but isn't it mad that it takes the generosity and kindness of two people to compensate for the failings of this government despite our country being one of the richest in the world.

MaizieD You are right. Work must start before the planning permission expires.

M0nica

Dinahmo In effect you are agreeing with me.

Quote - that you quoted from my previous post.
A company is like a table. It has four legs: Customers, Suppliers, Employees and Investors. Remove any of those legs and it falls over.

I am not defending billionaires and their excesses, but if they suddenly stopped doing any business whether financial or other, it would have a far greater effect on the world economy than people realise.

My contention is that a company can continue without its billionaire founder.

Callistemon21

Planning permission has a time limit too.

I understand that so long as you have made a start on the work, however minor a start, the time limit for planning permission is removed.

The extremely experienced builder I use (in the game for 50+ years) told me that. I trust him to be correct, though I haven't checked it out.