Trump

I just read this interesting bit:

President Biden’s fiery speech in Philadelphia denouncing former President Donald Trump and what he described as “extreme MAGA ideology” has sparked online calls for violence, including death threats against the president, according to documents obtained by Yahoo News.

Biden’s remarks also prompted immediate concerns from senior counterterrorism officials who said they fear that calling Trump supporters extremists would be viewed as a call to arms and would only inflame an already volatile threat environment.

“Too much of what’s happening in our country today is not normal,” Biden said Thursday night at Independence Hall, flanked by two U.S. Marines. “Donald Trump and the MAGA Republicans represent an extremism that threatens the very foundations of our republic.”

President Biden delivers remarks on what he called the "continued battle for the soul of the nation" at Independence Hall in Philadelphia. (Jonathan Ernst/Reuters)
By Friday afternoon, posts on forums popular among white supremacists and far-right extremists called for the assassination of Biden, and named Jewish administration officials including Attorney General Merrick Garland, Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen and Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas as potential targets. Declarations of civil war were also appearing, according to documents detailing some of the threats.

“On Gab, one user posted a series of violent threats accusing Biden of stealing the election,” according to a threat alert from Site Intelligence Group sent to law enforcement agencies and others on Friday. Trump and many of his supporters have long claimed, without evidence, that the 2020 presidential election won by Biden was stolen from Trump due to widespread voter fraud.

Site Intelligence Group, which tracks online extremism activity, issued several threat alerts detailing calls for violence in response to Biden’s speech. The potential threats were posted in online forums tied to the Proud Boys, neo-Nazis and other extremist groups.

“Users on several far-right and ultranationalist venues made violent threats against President Joe Biden following his speech addressing political extremism on September 1, 2022,” said one of the alerts. “Users advocated for Biden to be murdered and predicted violence if he continues speaking about the topic.”

Amid criticism, the White House has defended Biden's language, saying that the president is standing up for democracy and denouncing political violence. On Wednesday, press secretary Karine Jean-Pierre singled out specific Republicans who’ve espoused extremist rhetoric.

varian "Liz Cheney has the courage to do what so few Republican politicians seem able to do. She is prepared to call out Trump's "big lie" that he won the 2020 presidential election and his victory was "stolen" from him.

The 2020 Presidential election was honestly and fairly won by Joe Biden. Liz Cheney is a brave and honest woman."

So it seems.

So is Putin still pulling Trump's strings?

There are rumours that the papers Trump took from the White House which related to nuclear weapons have been copied and given by him to 20 friends so that if he is arrested his friends will send their copies to countries opposed to the US.

I disagree with almost everything that Liz Cheney stands for. She is a right wing Republican. Her father was one of the instigators of the Iraq war. She has voted in favour of almost all of Donald Trump's most appalling policies.

BUT- Liz Cheney has the courage to do what so few Republican politicians seem able to do. She is prepared to call out Trump's "big lie" that he won the 2020 presidential election and his victory was "stolen" from him.

I am sure that most intelligent Republican politicians know that this is a lie. The 2020 Presidential election was honestly and fairly won by Joe Biden. But they won't speak up.

Most Republican politicians are dishonest cowards but Liz Cheney is a brave and honest woman.

I really hope to see the lying charlatan in prison, along with his free loading family.

Liz Cheney is trying to stop trump's train.

"WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Republican Liz Cheney broadened her attack on Donald Trump after losing her Tuesday night primary, saying the former president was spreading an "insidious lie" in alleging that the FBI agents who searched his Florida home were politically motivated.

Federal agents seized boxes of documents, some top secret, from the former president's Palm Beach, Florida, resort last week as part of an investigation into whether critical papers were removed illegally from the White House after Trump left office.

Trump has claimed without evidence that the investigation and the agents involved in it are part of a conspiracy by his political rivals to damage him politically.

"This is another insidious lie," U.S. Representative Cheney said in a speech conceding her Tuesday night loss. She added that Trump "knows that embracing these conspiracies will trigger violence and threats of violence. This happened on Jan. 6, and it's now happening again."

Cheney drew Trump's ire by voting to impeach him on a charge of inciting the deadly Jan. 6, 2021, assault on the U.S. Capitol by his supporters and going on to play a prominent role in the congressional probe into that day's violence.

Liz Cheney has paid the price for her staunch opposition to Donald Trump’s assault on American democracy by losing her seat in Congress to a challenger backed by the former president.

The vice-chair of the January 6 committee was beaten by a conservative lawyer, Harriet Hageman, who has echoed Trump’s false claims of widespread voter fraud, in a Republican primary election to decide Wyoming’s lone member in the House of Representatives.

Conceding defeat in a speech in Jackson, Cheney said: “Two years ago, I won this primary with 73% of the vote. I could easily have done the same again. The path was clear, but it would have required that I go along with President Trump’s lie about the 2020 election.

“It would have required that I enabled his ongoing efforts to unravel our democratic system and attack the foundations of our republic. That was a path I could not and would not take.”

www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/aug/17/first-thing-liz-cheney-loses-wyoming-republican-primary-to-trump-endorsed-rival

Trump still seems to have a stranglehold on the Republican Party

Similarities to Lord Archer are noted.

It will likely be the IRS that takes him down. We are getting a bunch of new agents soon. Fingers crossed.

Trump has spent far too long thinking he can say whatever he likes and get away with it.

Any normal person would be hiding right now, getting their ducks in a row and listening to a good lawyer

Not this flaming narcissist, he is trying to rile up the general public to come to his defense again and going all out attack with his self styled wonderfulness that we can all see is just a silly naked old man.

I hope he gets thrown in prison.

varian Yes, America's FPTP system and SCOTUS debacle lead to "wins" by GWBush and Trump.

Doesn't work well, does it?

imaround

FWIW, I have been a lifelong Republican. I did not vote for Trump either time.

Calling people sheep is rather unbecoming no matter what side does it TBH.

The majority of voters, Democrat and Republican, are moderate voters. The problem in US politics is that extreme sides of both parties are stirring up identity politics.

On one hand you have the Trumpists. On the other you have Socialists that boarder on communism.

At the end of the day most of us look at elections recently and think, this is the best we have from 300 million people? And then we vote who we think will be the best case scenario from what we are offered.

Yes imaround you may well be right when you say that the majority of US voters are moderate yet extremists hold sway.

You have the same problem as we have in the UK.- an undemocratic voting system called "First Past The Post".

Hillary Clinton gained £3m + more votes than Trump yet Trump got elected.

It is ironic that the two foremost "democracies" in the world - the US and the UK, are not democracies at all. Because they use FPTP, governments opposed by the majority get elected with a majority of representatives and can rule virtually unopposed for years, moving the country further and further to an extreme which suits the funders of their parties, but does not usually work in the interests of the majority of the population.

FPTP elections are much easier for foriegn powers and malignant interests to manipulate. There is no doubt that Russia, by various legal and illegal means, influenced the election of Trump and the Leave vote in the UK EU referendum. Both these results led to a destabilising of the West which is Russia's central foriegn policy aim.

Surely both the US and the UK must look towards electoral reform and adopting proportional representation in place of the corrupt undemocratic FPTP?

varian

No he didn't hand over his tax records.

Donald Trump famously refused to publish his tax returns, which would show his annual income and taxes paid or owed. Although The New York Times published abbreviated information from Trump's tax returns on Sept. 27, 2020, the disclosure failed to provide details about his actual net worth.
In May 2022, Forbes estimated Trump’s net worth at $3 billion, falling short of the $10 billion estimates that Trump suggested while running for office in 2015.

Not as far as I’m aware. But I think that he is being forced to do so now.

Did Trump ever actually hand over his tax records which were supposed to be required before he could take office?

For years he kept saying they were "under audit" and would be handed over when the audit wads complete. Did that ever happen?

Under Biden the unemployment rate has fallen below 4%.

A climate change bill has passed as a nice start.

A $1.2 trillion dollar bill was passed to shore up Americans' traditional "hard" infrastructure, such as roads and bridges.

Biden halted funding for the construction of Trump's border wall, reversed his travel ban targeting largely Muslim countries and embraced progressive policies.

Biden also reversed several of Trump's attempts to withdraw from international agreements, beginning the process of rejoining the Paris climate accord and halting the United States' departure from the World Health Organization.

imaround Our friends and colleagues are about an even split of both political parties. We've lived part time in SE America for 20 yrs, we have a good idea what people think and believe.

Yes, people we know would prefer universal health care including end of life care (as is common in other countries), maternity leave (paid for a year would be preferable), better unemployment payments, social benefits in general. Socialism? No, just decent standard treatment for all.

Not familiar with Fox News. We watch BBC, PBS, David Muir, and MSNBC.

Guns? Yes, we find it upsetting there are 50 MILLION more guns than people. Guns kill people in alarming unnecessary scenarios - guns are freely carried about in bags, cars, pockets. Yes, that is unacceptable as are all the mass shootings.

FYI, Followers of hype and news channels apply to both sides of the political spectrum. So go ahead and blame Fox news all you want, but it is very difficult to find a completely unbiased news source on any channel.

I do not think many people have a problem with some Socialism, except the Trump supporters. In fact, many of the programs we already have are socialist programs. Many of the moderate voters support more programs.

The problem is that lobbyists pay for votes on both sides of the aisle. Want to see why we don't have healthcare for all?

www.opensecrets.org/federal-lobbying/industries

The Pharmaceutical industry donated the most money to candidates in the country.

Top recipient from Lobbyist in 2022? Chuck Schumer, a democrat.

www.opensecrets.org/federal-lobbying/top-recipients

The reason Trump got elected in the first place was because voters in the US were tired of the same old politician who takes money from lobbyists and then tells us how we should be living. He got elected BECAUSE he is not a politician.

Biden got elected because he was a moderate candidate who is not Trump.

So while you may think, based on what you hear when you vacation here, that you know all about how us "sheep" in the US operate, you actually know very little. You could not possibly know what 300 MILLION people in America think or believe.

It is likely that the majority of your friends have the same ideologies as you do and when you do engage in a conversation from someone who thinks differently you bring out the same old argument and talking points.

sheep
Fox news
We don't want everyone to have health care
We don't want new moms to have good maternity coverage
We are gun nuts

The overall general tone of the conversation is filled with an underlying judgement that implies that us Americans are heathens who are only out to take care of ourselves. It is simply not true.

imaround

FWIW, I have been a lifelong Republican. I did not vote for Trump either time.

Calling people sheep is rather unbecoming no matter what side does it TBH.

The majority of voters, Democrat and Republican, are moderate voters. The problem in US politics is that extreme sides of both parties are stirring up identity politics.

On one hand you have the Trumpists. On the other you have Socialists that boarder on communism.

At the end of the day most of us look at elections recently and think, this is the best we have from 300 million people? And then we vote who we think will be the best case scenario from what we are offered.

I'll remove sheep, insert followers of hype and news channels.

I'm quite interested in the statement "Socialists that border on Communism".

We have a holiday home in America, I've never heard my friends say anything about Socialism as a worry.

Socialism as in benefits for the poor and jobless (though unemployment is less than 4%) or what form of Socialism I may be missing? Decent medical care for all? Maternity care, stay at home after the birth benefits? Educational benefits? Paying off student loans?

I figured but since I have no knowledge of UK politics I didn't want to assume.

It is about power. And those who have it want to keep it. They will do anything they can to do so.

imaround

FWIW, I have been a lifelong Republican. I did not vote for Trump either time.

Calling people sheep is rather unbecoming no matter what side does it TBH.

The majority of voters, Democrat and Republican, are moderate voters. The problem in US politics is that extreme sides of both parties are stirring up identity politics.

On one hand you have the Trumpists. On the other you have Socialists that boarder on communism.

At the end of the day most of us look at elections recently and think, this is the best we have from 300 million people? And then we vote who we think will be the best case scenario from what we are offered.

You could be describing UK politics too there imaround, the scenario is exactly the same.

FWIW, I have been a lifelong Republican. I did not vote for Trump either time.

Calling people sheep is rather unbecoming no matter what side does it TBH.

The majority of voters, Democrat and Republican, are moderate voters. The problem in US politics is that extreme sides of both parties are stirring up identity politics.

On one hand you have the Trumpists. On the other you have Socialists that boarder on communism.

At the end of the day most of us look at elections recently and think, this is the best we have from 300 million people? And then we vote who we think will be the best case scenario from what we are offered.

I don’t know Norah, but there does seem to be a element of the party that’s moving on.
www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2022-07-18/good-news-for-democrats-even-republicans-are-tiring-of-trump
I wonder if the minority are shouting the loudest, just as they do here?

Casdon

Norah

Casdon

Norah

Casdon Surely prison is the ultimate outcome assuming they have found that he’s stolen state secret papers? I wonder if that would change the view of republicans about him?

No, Republicans have no critical thinking ability.

I don’t believe that. It’s not just rednecks who are republicans.

I don't believe it's an acknowledged fact that only rednecks lack critical thinking ability. Look to Kevin McCarthy, Mitch McConnell, John Bozeman, Tom Cotton.

But half the population of the US is republican, you can’t tar them all with the ‘stupid’ brush.

No, half the US population is not stupid.

But Republicans, currently, seem to be follower sheep, lack empathy for the poor, love their guns and their "news" channels. They appear to lack critical thinking skills.

Look to the Republican leaders in Congress.