Transphobic Bullying

Galaxy

It was on a podcast I heard VS, I did wonder if societal structures such as marriage and children would help, and if therefore the laws relating to gay marriage would help but that is just guesswork on my part.

I will have a look into it at some point, too frazzled to do any more research today.

I find that idea so upsetting and we would need to try and further understand why it is happening.

Chewbacca

^If you can't understand the OP and why children being bullied using transphobic slurs is an issue, you dont have to join in or you could stay and talk and see if you can find some understanding.^

No need to be quite so passive aggressive vs, I did actually say @ 19.53 that your OP began by referring to trans bullying, veered off onto masculine appearing women and butch lesbians in toilets, who, to be fair, shouldn't be in school lavatories in the first place, and then onto children with glasses. It's gone all over the shop and I'm thinking that Baggs may have been correct @ 16.29. And I really don't need anyone's permission to stay or not, thank you

I'm not being passive aggressive, I understand that may be your perception but it's not my reality

If you didn't understand and I still haven't explained clearly enough over the course of the thread, let me know and I will try again

Thanks for that Elegran; That's very interesting.

Meths should be methods - I deleted the end of methodology to shorten it a little, and overdid it.

Re suicides by trans or would-be trans people - Transgender Trend says "There have been two studies conducted in the UK. We have analysed both in detail as well as contacting the academic groups who carried out the studies. We believe there are fundamental weaknesses in both studies which seriously undermine the claim that suicide is a major risk." www.transgendertrend.com/the-suicide-myth/

"Although there is no doubt that children and young people suffering gender dysphoria are an extremely vulnerable group deserving of our support and care, the oft-quoted suicide statistics are from surveys which are not robust and there is no evidence that transition is a ‘cure.’

Any risk of suicide is terrifying for parents, every suicide is an awful tragedy and for this reason we feel that exaggerating the risk and constantly using the threat of suicide is unhelpful and irresponsible. We have attempted to sort out the actual facts of this emotive subject."

They analyse the meths and the presentation of these two studies.

Obviously that may not prevent gender dysphoria and the feeling of being in the wrong body and if so, trans will remain a protected characteristic under the equality act.

If you can't understand the OP and why children being bullied using transphobic slurs is an issue, you dont have to join in or you could stay and talk and see if you can find some understanding.

No need to be quite so passive aggressive vs, I did actually say @ 19.53 that your OP began by referring to trans bullying, veered off onto masculine appearing women and butch lesbians in toilets, who, to be fair, shouldn't be in school lavatories in the first place, and then onto children with glasses. It's gone all over the shop and I'm thinking that Baggs may have been correct @ 16.29. And I really don't need anyone's permission to stay or not, thank you

Well yes that's why we need to challenge gender and the stereotypes within it, so there is no dressing like a woman, no feeling like a woman etc. Its all sexist regressive thinking.

Chewbacca

^So many children have different issues but they need to feel included and accepted and learn about how much they have in common^

so why does your OP specifically focus on trans children?

If you can't understand the OP and why children being bullied using transphobic slurs is an issue, you dont have to join in or you could stay and talk and see if you can find some understanding.

I see it as an issue to both trans children and the children being bullied despite not being trans just because they don't conform to gender norms or they are gay. I feel that has roots in fear, ignorance, wider public commentary and also....sexism a subject that matters to me as a feminist.

It was on a podcast I heard VS, I did wonder if societal structures such as marriage and children would help, and if therefore the laws relating to gay marriage would help but that is just guesswork on my part.

Reading through the incidents in the OP, I would judge that this is the type of behaviour that arises when individuals feel under threat and compelled by authority to submit to measures that they regard as unfair or damaging to themselves.

We’ve seen throughout history that a dislike of the group that are perceived to be receiving privileges is the next step, as authority itself cannot be challenged or refuses to listen. Then individuals team up with others who also feel the aggrieved to form a group that supports each other.

From there the the abuse directed at the initial group translates into abuse of anyone else who is outside the counter group.

It’s human psychology really and played over and over again in large and small communities.

But it’s root is a sense of injustice.

So maybe the answer in violetsky’s school is for the adults in authority to really listen to what all their children are telling them. To be prepared to respect them all.

Some real misapprehensions on this thread. Firstly the fact that your DC or GC doesn't talk about bullying in their school doesn't mean it isn't happening. Children are very clever at working out who they can safely tell about what, and one of the big no-nos for talking about bullying is their fear that you might actually do something because keeping a low profile is essential.
As regards children being sent porn it is not necessary to go through the school to report such actions it can be done directly to child protection officers www.ceop.police.uk/Safety-Centre/
There is no indication that any porn is seen as acceptable.
Most people who have worked with children know that the same prejudices exist today among some parents. It is difficult to combat that when it is something children have learned since birth. Many will welcome and thrive in an atmosphere of inclusion, but others might just subvert their real feelings and only allow them to emerge sometimes.
It 's a pity that the debate about gender issues feeds into discrimination and bullying. Some of which is very obvious on GN, never mind in schools.

So many children have different issues but they need to feel included and accepted and learn about how much they have in common

so why does your OP specifically focus on trans children?

What is interesting to me is that a child without glasses isn't going to be called names relayed to wearing them

So a child that is not trans being bullied with transphobic slurs is rather different and comes from a root of wider public opinion, fear, ignorance and sexism

Which is why I feel this topic matters

Yes, adults do have responsibility for the messages they give out, that's why tolerance and respect matters to everyone.

So many children have different issues but they need to feel included and accepted and learn about how much they have in common

I agree. I saw this thread earlier today and thought 'Hmm...' Because bullying has no hierarchy.

Let's outlaw all bullying. Let's not set one tiny group as extra special over all the thousands of people who are bullied for being too tall, too short, too clever, too thick, too fat, too thin, having red hair or white hair or ethnic hair, not talking or looking right and for a million other reasons. Bullies will find reasons where none exist.

Yes, I agree Chewbacca. Children (and grownups) are very quick to pick up on special attention and any difference in expectations on the part of grown ups. They have a quite a polarised concept of “fair” and were grownups might make allowances they expect just dealings.

That perception of an adult favouring one group or individual can quickly turn to a feeling of of dislike. I’m afraid adults often allow their prejudices and preferences to show through and I would always say, if there are problems, look to how the adults are behaving and the messages that they are giving out.

None of the children mentioned in the OP are actually trans

It’s respect for everyone that needs to be taught and practiced. Singling out one group only adds to the problem in my experience.

And it's this that worries me. Whilst the thread has slowly drifted towards general bullying, it was quite obviously started in order to discuss "transphobic bullying" and I'm concerned that in focusing solely on the trans children who, according to the OP are a significant number at her school, they are being "othered" from the rest of the children. Maybe this is the problem. Stop treating them as "different", "special", "in need of extra protection and consideration" and start treating them just as "children" and like any other child. By focussing so intently on their trans issues, you're drawing unfair and unbalanced attention to them that other children will pick up on and that "unfairness" will cause bullying issues where none existed before. Children accept anything and anyone; so lead by example. I'm surprised that OFSTED hasn't picked up on this on their last inspection.

Callistemon21

Is this specific? ie are your children being bullied?

If general then it's up to the parents of those pupils being bullied to complain and sort it out.

Friends of theirs and witnessed.

My daughter has had a bit of bullying by the same group. I know the mother of one of them and let her know what was going on and my concerns I didn't accuse her daughter in any way just said there were issues between friendship groups.... the response was a bit rabid let's say.

I probably should have gone and spoken to her in person, I think I come across badly in type

Galaxy

I would be really interested in some research on levels of acceptance within society and correlation with bullying. I got quite a shock recently to read that rates of suicide amongst gay people remained the same despite changing attitudes and more acceptance. I realise that might be a slightly different subject but it's important we know what correlations we are dealing with.

Please can you share that Galaxy

That's actually a bit soul crushing and I would like to read it

Is this specific? ie are your children being bullied?

If general then it's up to the parents of those pupils being bullied to complain and sort it out.

I would be really interested in some research on levels of acceptance within society and correlation with bullying. I got quite a shock recently to read that rates of suicide amongst gay people remained the same despite changing attitudes and more acceptance. I realise that might be a slightly different subject but it's important we know what correlations we are dealing with.

Lathyrus

Actually I dont think you can “teach” acceptance. Most peop,e, including children, react negatively to being authoritarian instruction.

Inculcate isn’t a word much used nowadays but I think it is key.
Children behave with respect, not when they are instructed to do so, but when they understand and accept the value of each person in their community - in this case school.

The sledgehammer approach doesn’t work.

I do agree, we cant just say do we have to teach through understanding and I believe that modeling is also key

Oh that suffered a bit from rephrasing but I think the gist is clear.