Heading towards a general strike?

So you’re happy for there to be even more suffering?

Germanshepherdsmum

So you’re happy for there to be even more suffering?

I don't like to see anyone suffer, but when the alternative is a return to conditions workers haven't endured since the 1930s I think a period of short suffering which leads to more job security, better pay and conditions and a decent living wage is preferable to unending years of grinding poverty.

Glorianny

Germanshepherdsmum

No, Glorianny, a general strike would not be ‘great’. A lot of people would suffer in many ways.

A lot of people are suffering already. Why is it OK to keep workers on inadequate wages, whilst making huge profits, but not to withdraw your labour?

Agreed.

Also, I asked upthread how people who don't approve of strikes would advise someone on minimum wage who works full time and can't pay their bills, but no answer so far. I'll add another question - if people are not allowed to strike, what does that do to the relationship between employers and staff? Master and servant? Is that going to make for good industrial relations? How would you compel people to work if striking were illegal?

GrannyGravy13

I think the last thing the U.K. needs at the moment is a general strike.

You might think it's thevlast thingbthe UK needs but I think it's very much on the cards and people had better brace themselves for it.

There are a great many fed up and unhappy people out there whose standard of life has diminished over the last 12 years of tory government because of pay freezes, who see big pay increases and bonuses at the top end of the hierarchy and companies making big profits from their work which they are not getting a share of. athey see a looming severe cost of living crisis and a government apparently unwilling to do anything to help those who will be badly affected (which could be as much as 50% oof the population). They see the NHS falling apart to the apparent indifference of the government and they see the adverse effects of a botched Brexit. Perhaps even begin to realise how badly they've been lied to to induce them to vote for Brexit.

At some point we could reach a critical mass of angry and disaffected people who will be too much for the government to control...

Fleurpepper

Certainly a massive winter of discontment.

The last time we had a Winter of Discontent it did cause a lot of hardship. There was chaos which the then PM would not acknowledge. It was a very hard, cold winter.

The SNP withdrew its support for the Government, there was a vote of no confidence in the Government which they lost and there was subsequently a GE which resulted in a victory for the Opposition.

If there are strikes and a cold winter combined with the huge rise in fuel prices then history could repeat itself.

Is Starmer ready?

An awful lot of us on minimum wage cannot afford the just under £15.00 monthly GMB subscription fees.
Just wanted to give another reason why some may not be able to join a union

I can understand that, Skomer, although that is the full-time rate. There is a cheaper rate for people who work less than 20 hours a week. Those who do make the sacrifice, however, are often annoyed when pay rises and all the other things that unions fight for are awarded to non-members too. It does seem like they want a free ride.

Callustemon I hope Starmer is ready, but more than that I am scared that we are ripe for more sinister forces to take advantage of the dire straits the Tories have got us into. The media rubbish the opposition, and history has shown what can happen when people are desperate and someone promises to get the trains running on time.

^ I hope Starmer is ready, but more than that I am scared that we are ripe for more sinister forces to take advantage of the dire straits the Tories have got us into. The media rubbish the opposition, and history has shown what can happen when people are desperate and someone promises to get the trains running on time.^

That is partly my worry, too, Doodledog, though not specifically fascism. Just any sort of populist uprising. History tells us that that would be far more unpleasant than a winter of discontent...

apolgies for format failure. I should have previewed.

GrannyGravy13

I think the last thing the U.K. needs at the moment is a general strike.

... the "UK" is not a homogenous group.

And a general strike is never a desirable outcome is it?

But things cannot go on as they are. If people working full-time were just about managing to put food on the table and pay their bills, but are now in the position where they simply and literally cannot afford to do both - what do you expect them to do? If the ever-increasing cost of living is so punitive, do you really think they should just suck it up, continue to accept that BP etc are making unprecedented profits, while they continue to cut, cut - and cut some more from their weekly food shop to the point where they're not able to eat enough to sustain them to even go to work?

The government have it within their remit to help those who are really struggling. It won't suit their ideology, they would have to do it through gritted teeth because it goes against their free-market ideology, and they loath giving "handouts", but people cannot live below subsistence level - they cannot go home to an empty food cupboard and a cold house (possibly, in winter, very cold - even damp) indefinitely whilst they wait for the markets to re-balance themselves, for businesses to "grow", or wait for the 'trickle-down' effect.

No, a general strike is not good, but the mere fact that we are now looking at one in a nation that is normally mostly compliant, that moans and whinges but doesn't normally galvanise itself into any action to combat the things it complains about, should surely tell you that we have reached a critical stage, a stage where some simply will find that their income - no matter how "hard" they work, will not cover their outgoings.

The government have options to mitigate the effects of this cost of living crisis, to some extent at least. I for one will support a general strike - because it's the only way this current government will understand that people have had enough... years of Austerity, and now this. Government can still be fiscally 'responsible' and, at the same time, alleviate the very real suffering that some are experiencing. There is wealth - we are still a wealthy country. How much longer do you expect the low-paid to watch their income shrivel whilst those at the top get ever bigger payouts, bonuses - whilst BP reports it highest profits for eight years, etc, etc, bloody, etc?

We've reached a point of no-return. There will be riots, civil disobedience, strikes, economic instability. You can only supress people for a period of time before they retaliate. We're a tolerant nation in terms of what we're prepared to put up with economically, we've accepted the dwindling services in the Care sector, Dentistry, the NHS, etc, we've accepted the former increases in the cost of living. But the shocking increase in fuel and energy prices is now unacceptable. The end of the tether has been reached.

The end of the tether has been reached

When it was reached in 1978/79 Margaret Thatcher was more than ready. Like her or loathe her, the speeches she gave were impassioned and inspired many to vote Tory for the first time. Perhaps some didn't think of the ultimate consequences of her policies, they were sick and tired of the status quo and just wanted change.

Perhaps Keir Starmer lacks the charisma so he will have to rely on the fact that he would be a steady and reliable PM to steer us through the crises.

You need more than charisma to be a nation’s leader.

You need integrity, steadiness, reliability and intelligence.

Yes, you do but a good proportion of the voting public may disagree.

Dickens summed up exactly what I feel.

I will support a general strike on the basis that this government could help but choose not to do so. How else can the voices of millions who are struggling just to keep up be heard?

Callistemon21

^The end of the tether has been reached^

When it was reached in 1978/79 Margaret Thatcher was more than ready. Like her or loathe her, the speeches she gave were impassioned and inspired many to vote Tory for the first time. Perhaps some didn't think of the ultimate consequences of her policies, they were sick and tired of the status quo and just wanted change.

Perhaps Keir Starmer lacks the charisma so he will have to rely on the fact that he would be a steady and reliable PM to steer us through the crises.

Like her or loathe her, the speeches she gave were impassioned and inspired many to vote Tory for the first time.

Disliked her and what she stood for, but - the difference between her and Johnson, Truss, Sunak, IMO is that she believed wholeheartedly in an ideology that had already formed her and one to which she was committed, regardless. I got the impression that she didn't need to 'cast around' for mantras and soundbites, though she did make some memorable statements and observations.

I don't think Johnson is committed to anything other than his own ambition and will adopt any stance necessary to achieve it. Truss was a Remainer but has become a Brexiter and seems to falter when choosing her priorities - back-tracking on them if necessary. Sunak - well I'm not sure about him, but I do believe he's a dedicated right-winter. But he, too, will back-track if necessary. Whereas Thatcher laid out her stall, and what you saw was what you were going to get.

Her speeches were impassioned I think because she really believed in what she was promoting.

Excellent post at 09.28 Dickens. Thank you. ????

What else is there to improve the situation other than a general strike?

Yes, good post Dickens

What else is there to improve the situation other than a general strike?

A general election? Hopefully one will drive the other.

A mere nursery nurse for twenty years wouldn’t know where to start joining a union it’s work or want for me!

Dickens

GrannyGravy13

I think the last thing the U.K. needs at the moment is a general strike.

... the "UK" is not a homogenous group.

And a general strike is never a desirable outcome is it?

But things cannot go on as they are. If people working full-time were just about managing to put food on the table and pay their bills, but are now in the position where they simply and literally cannot afford to do both - what do you expect them to do? If the ever-increasing cost of living is so punitive, do you really think they should just suck it up, continue to accept that BP etc are making unprecedented profits, while they continue to cut, cut - and cut some more from their weekly food shop to the point where they're not able to eat enough to sustain them to even go to work?

The government have it within their remit to help those who are really struggling. It won't suit their ideology, they would have to do it through gritted teeth because it goes against their free-market ideology, and they loath giving "handouts", but people cannot live below subsistence level - they cannot go home to an empty food cupboard and a cold house (possibly, in winter, very cold - even damp) indefinitely whilst they wait for the markets to re-balance themselves, for businesses to "grow", or wait for the 'trickle-down' effect.

No, a general strike is not good, but the mere fact that we are now looking at one in a nation that is normally mostly compliant, that moans and whinges but doesn't normally galvanise itself into any action to combat the things it complains about, should surely tell you that we have reached a critical stage, a stage where some simply will find that their income - no matter how "hard" they work, will not cover their outgoings.

The government have options to mitigate the effects of this cost of living crisis, to some extent at least. I for one will support a general strike - because it's the only way this current government will understand that people have had enough... years of Austerity, and now this. Government can still be fiscally 'responsible' and, at the same time, alleviate the very real suffering that some are experiencing. There is wealth - we are still a wealthy country. How much longer do you expect the low-paid to watch their income shrivel whilst those at the top get ever bigger payouts, bonuses - whilst BP reports it highest profits for eight years, etc, etc, bloody, etc?

We've reached a point of no-return. There will be riots, civil disobedience, strikes, economic instability. You can only supress people for a period of time before they retaliate. We're a tolerant nation in terms of what we're prepared to put up with economically, we've accepted the dwindling services in the Care sector, Dentistry, the NHS, etc, we've accepted the former increases in the cost of living. But the shocking increase in fuel and energy prices is now unacceptable. The end of the tether has been reached.

Very well said

Harris27

A mere nursery nurse for twenty years wouldn’t know where to start joining a union it’s work or want for me!

Unison represent Nursery Nurses/Early Years Practitioners

There is no such thing as a mere nursery nurse!
A very valuable and necessary job, Harris27

I sometimes think that we may be heading for something more alarming than a general strike -this country has lost its way. Nothing in this country works as it should.

We have had enough of a thoroughly corrupt and incompetent Tory government and it really doesn't matter which corrupt and incompetent Tory becomes the next PM.

We need total rethink if the UK is to survive as a country -top to bottom constitutional reform, starting with scrapping our undemocratic FPTP voting system.

varian

I sometimes think that we may be heading for something more alarming than a general strike -this country has lost its way. Nothing in this country works as it should.

We have had enough of a thoroughly corrupt and incompetent Tory government and it really doesn't matter which corrupt and incompetent Tory becomes the next PM.

We need total rethink if the UK is to survive as a country -top to bottom constitutional reform, starting with scrapping our undemocratic FPTP voting system.

I don’t agree varian because given we will doubtless have a Tory government for over 2 years, it still matters a great deal who is PM.