The Staffing Crisis in the NHS

Monitoring is also a huge issue with medical students and junior doctors, and GP trainees (who have to be vey closely monitored and coached by a trained and selected senior GP for 3 years. GP trainers are just not coming forward as it is too time consuming and energy sapping).

When I retired from nursing almost 4 years ago it was getting difficult for universities to place nursing students as many areas would not take them because the pressures on staff meant there was no time for the mentoring they required. I retired in the cohort of nurses that the UK NHS (different systems for the countries in the UK but similar problems) were aware that a large number of nurses were reaching retirement but had not prepared for this. It takes at least 3 years at uni to train a nurse, longer to train a doctor. The roles have changed beyond belief. I did not go to uni - it was a school of nursing. My first placement I had to serve breakfast, learn how to make a bed the hospital way, help to bath patients, maybe watch a senior nurse do a dressing. In your second year of training you were in charge of a whole ward of patients overnight. I digress though - professional bodies have been warning about nurses retiring for many years and no government has paid heed to this.

Yes, absolutely. I was talking to a chap yesterday whose wife is a trauma nurse. They’re expecting a baby but once her Mat Leave is over she’s planning to leave the NHS and return as locum, for more family-friendly hours, better pay and less stress.

It’s all a mess.

Then those over-stretched leave because they are worried that they might make a mistake through sheer tiredness and stress, exacerbating the situation.

I know SueDomin, I’m not disagreeing with you. The problem is that the clinical teams don’t have the number of staff in them to support the training of more juniors. That’s why I said that fundamentally it’s a resourcing problem, they employ less people, work them half to death, don’t give them capacity in their working week to teach, and then wonder why experienced doctors leave the NHS. But it’s not just doctors, the same pattern applies to the other heath professions as well. It’s a vicious circle of neglect.

There aren’t enough placements available now and there won’t be in the future until more staff are employed, which doesn’t seem to be happening. Staff aren’t being retained, either. My dd is 2yrs post-qualified and has left the NHS because of the appalling conditions. She’s now working as a locum instead.

SueDonim

Casdon

Capping of university places available to train for the professions is a major issue.

It’s not that easy to expand places. You need to provide clinical placements and supervisors for all students and these are not available. Medical students don’t spend all their time in lecture halls, they work on the wards and in clinics, in my DD’s case, from six weeks after starting in first year.

People would soon start complaining if they were treated by doctors who’d never had any hands-on experience.

I know SueDomin. It requires more investment from the government to universities to plan and expand the number of places available over a prolonged period. I wasn’t specifically talking about medical students, but whilst the number of clinical attachments is an issue, if more resources were provided they could be expanded because there would be more teaching capacity available within clinical teams- fundamentally it’s a resourcing problem.

But this isn't a new problem. This government has had 12 years to make plans and start expanding places. I read a report (Kings Fund?), which claimed that there are universities which don't currently run medic courses, which would be keen to set them up, but the government isn't interested. Some of them have good hospitals nearby, which are crying out for trainees.

Nevertheless SueDonim there always used to be enough clinical placements and supervision. With the will, support and enough financial input there could be again. In fact there'll have to be!!

Casdon

Capping of university places available to train for the professions is a major issue.

It’s not that easy to expand places. You need to provide clinical placements and supervisors for all students and these are not available. Medical students don’t spend all their time in lecture halls, they work on the wards and in clinics, in my DD’s case, from six weeks after starting in first year.

People would soon start complaining if they were treated by doctors who’d never had any hands-on experience.

My daughter is an NHS nurse and is considering leaving the profession. For her it's not so much about the money but poor management and ever changing unrealistic government targets.

DaisyAnne I had already listened to it before posting.

My DD, a nurse, has been asked if she is willing to strike. Where years ago nurses would not strike now they are saying they will. What an awful situation.

Why indeed Daisy. I don’t blame any fir leaving but wish they didn’t feel they have to.
My dd hangs on but it’s hard.

It's such a shame Kinsi10. It was always hard (even in Miss Nightingales Day) but now people are saying they go home and don't feel as if they have done a good job. That must drag you down in time.

I think those trying to manage are also trying to do their best. You can't if the government - the overall employers - is not behind you, imo. It is so sad.

On the programme, one person said "nurses have always been very tolerant of low-pay", silverlining. I think this has been true but with shortages of staff everywhere and other opportunities why should they continue to be if the job gives them no satisfaction?

Agree DaisyAnne, things have changed greatly and not for the best. Too many changes by people who have never worked directly with patients and their families.

I read Kinsil as saying nothing much has changed. Staff still Over worked and underpaid.
I know my dd went 10 years without a raise until recently. That timeframe fits with the 12 years of the current Tory government.

Kinsi10

I worked for the NHS for almost twenty years. I left in 2003. "It was ever thus". Underpaid, overworked staff doing their very best to provide the best care possible. Unpaid overtime was the norm for senior staff, who also had to supervise junior staff and students.
Very hard work but I loved it.

You left nearly 20 years ago Kinsil0. It doesn't sound as if people can love it now.

I worked for nhs for over 40yrs was a qualified nurse ,loved it for a lot of years ,but was glad to leave, the pressures on people was horrific at times .

I worked for the NHS for almost twenty years. I left in 2003. "It was ever thus". Underpaid, overworked staff doing their very best to provide the best care possible. Unpaid overtime was the norm for senior staff, who also had to supervise junior staff and students.
Very hard work but I loved it.

They were talking about that too, mokryna. It's worth a listen. The programme did check how the hospital leaders were dealing with the staff that are left. A couple of hospitals were putting good practices in place. However, with such a shortage, I can only think that the good hospitals will be able to recruit, but only from ones struggling even more than they are.

In my daughter’s NHS section one girl left to join the train workers and she is going to be trained to be a train driver, while another has joined the police force and has been promised fast tracking.
Being short staffed, the stress that causes and pay are her priorities.

Casdon

Capping of university places available to train for the professions is a major issue.

They were saying that many of the countries where we used to attract staff from are also cutting back on their numbers. Looking six, eight or 10 years forward I despair.

I'm sure we are all aware of the problems that are happening because there is now where to go that has help for many who are then left in the hospital. They talk on the programme about the interweaving of issues making everything worse and it is so much more than just the derogatorily called "bed blocking".

It’s the same for radiography and radiotherapy I know, and probably for OT, speech therapy and physiotherapy too. And of course for nursing.