So, who votes for a government that improves the lives of Bankers, and ensures the excessive profits of energy companies, but needs all the "levelling up" money to pay for the holes in Brexit?

Well said Dickens.

Once again, well said Dickens

I absolutely agree that someone has to do the minimum wage jobs, and we would be in dire straits without them. In this case it was a matter of young people, the poster’s grandchildren, working, IIRC, in the care sector which I understood to be their chosen career. The argument was simply about someone on minimum wage being unable to afford to buy a house.

The care sector is mentioned, low waged, yes, menial, no, link that with housing, unless you have a partner earning a higher wage it means social housing.

If your vocation is caring, there is nothing wrong with social housing for those doing low paid work. Council houses were a fact of life for a great many until Thatcher bribed tenants to vote Tory.

I agree. The feeling that you must own your house, even if you can’t afford it, is a relatively new thing in the UK. Renting was considered the norm by very many people as it still is in parts of Europe. The right to buy legislation has proved a huge mistake.

Well I'd like to know what some posters on here think a Labour or Lib Dem government would do, wave a magic wand?

I’m sure that’s exactly what they think. Thousands of affordable houses would spring up overnight like mushrooms, the NHS would be fixed, education would be fixed, the cost of living would be fixed, inflation would be zero and sterling would rocket - and all would be right with the world. With someone paying for all that of course.

Little chance of labour doing anything because it’s hardly ever in power.

We return to the old question of why the working class vote Tory.

Germanshepherdsmum

I absolutely agree that someone has to do the minimum wage jobs, and we would be in dire straits without them. In this case it was a matter of young people, the poster’s grandchildren, working, IIRC, in the care sector which I understood to be their chosen career. The argument was simply about someone on minimum wage being unable to afford to buy a house.

Thanks for the reply GSM.

I understand you were replying to a particular post.

Of course, housing is a whole 'nother ball game. As you say, renting was considered the norm at one time. But that was at a time when renters had a certain amount of security as tenants so the 'urge' to own one's own home was not so pressing. A separate discussion!

Indeed. It was a time when we had that good old thing, council housing.

Maudi

Well I'd like to know what some posters on here think a Labour or Lib Dem government would do, wave a magic wand?

What can or can't be done starts with one thing - the 'will' to want to do something. From that stems the possibilities or options.

Does anyone really believe in the 'magic wand'? I don't think the majority of those opposed to this government's ideology are dumb enough to think you can - in a global world - simply wave it and solve the economic woes.

I understand fiscal responsibility, I understand inflation. What I don't understand is why people are so ready to dismiss the idea of a more equitable political / economic system than the one we have under this current government where it's widely acknowledged (and it gets tedious repeating this) that the rich get richer at the expense - not only of the poor - but the squeezed middle also.

Of course, if you approve the current parameters, you will I guess assume that anything else is pie-in-the-sky thinking.

However, other countries do manage 'their' Capitalism with a good dollop of social, health and welfare programmes. I've worked in two of them. It's a question of priorities and ideology.

Well said Dickens

I have just googled U.K. Prime Ministers

Out of 56 only 6 have been Labour, there is a slight discrepancy as two whigs are disputed they would make 58

So at a glance it appears that the U.K. has been predominantly Conservative.

I just wonder what the Labour Party or indeed the Liberal Democrats will have to do in order to turn the tide?

Maudi

Well I'd like to know what some posters on here think a Labour or Lib Dem government would do, wave a magic wand?

I suspect it's like anything else. Grass is greener. But it's not.

There is no wand.

I believe it's down to slightly higher taxes and reducing waste.

Germanshepherdsmum

Indeed. It was a time when we had that good old thing, council housing.

Ironic that you should mention that when it was good old tory Thatcher who sold them off very cheaply and wouldn't let councils replace their stock.

I am not enchanted by your assertion that we must always have minimum wage jobs. It smacks too much of that old cliche, the rich man in his castle, the poor man at his gate... There is no reason why any job should pay the minimum people need to get by on. Just people wedded to the belief that that is how it should be.

We have known for decades that we need more housing of all types, including affordable or available for rent. No government has done anything about it, just left 'the market' to provide, but the market clearly doesn't provide. We need state investment in housing at the 'low end'. But that wouldn't suit the people who live off rentals and high house prices because it would diminish their profits. But just think how that would stimulate growth.

The government, contrary to the belief of the brainwashed public, doesn't need our taxes to pay for it. It just needs its capacity to issue new money.

It's not a magic wand that is required, it is the political will.

Since WW2 we have had Attlee, Wilson and Blair as PMs of Labour governments. Three in over 70 years isn’t a lot. There may have been one other but in the main, where we are now, is down to Tory control.
As Dickens says other countries manage their capitalism but also have good social and health conditions for their population.

I certainly don’t assert that we should have minimum wage jobs, but obviously some kinds of work always have been, and always will be, less well paid than others. The minimum wage was supposed to be a safeguard but in some areas such as care it has morphed into ‘the standard wage’, aka the lowest we can pay without breaking the law. It is disgraceful that care workers should be paid so little for what they do, which I doubt many of us would wish to.

For some years it has been standard practice for 30-40% affordable housing to be provided on new residential developments. Occasionally a payment in lieu to enable its provision offsite by the local authority is agreed. Developers usually want to provide affordable housing for sale (low cost or shared ownership) rather than affordable rented housing and it ends up being a horse trade. I’m the first to criticise the iniquity of right to buy; the inability of councils to invest the entire proceeds of sale in building new homes has made it a double whammy.

I certainly don’t assert that we should have minimum wage jobs,

Let me quote you, GSM

I absolutely agree that someone has to do the minimum wage jobs,

...........................................

^ I’m the first to criticise the iniquity of right to buy; the inability of councils to invest the entire proceeds of sale in building new homes has made it a double whammy.^

It would be helpful to cordial relations if you made sentiments such as these clear when you first post on the subject. You know the deep suspicion with which tory voters are viewed

Interesting. Would you vote for a not tory party if it said it was going to implement a programme of council house building?

I would MaizieD as long as I could see forward thinking in the rest of their proposed policies.

Talking about ‘the minimum wage jobs’ is not saying that I approve of those jobs being paid at that level Maizie. I don’t, save to say that at least it prevents people being paid even less. Everyone is entitled to be paid a living wage.

Yes I know that Conservative voters are viewed with deep suspicion (I’m being polite), but I have made clear on previous occasions that the right to buy was a big mistake - most recently I think during a discussion about the proposal to extend it to HA properties, many of which are subject to a restriction preventing staircasing to 100%. Affordable housing needs to remain affordable in perpetuity. I would be delighted to see a Conservative government wanting to build more council properties - and revoking the RTB legislation.

I would be delighted to see a Conservative government wanting to build more council properties - and revoking the RTB legislation.

I'll let you know when I see a flock of pink pigs flying over my house

I hope they hove into view before too long! Do watch out for your washing!

The geese are bad enough atm. They sound like they are being murdered

I know! Keeping car in garage!

GrannyGravy13

I have just googled U.K. Prime Ministers

Out of 56 only 6 have been Labour, there is a slight discrepancy as two whigs are disputed they would make 58

So at a glance it appears that the U.K. has been predominantly Conservative.

I just wonder what the Labour Party or indeed the Liberal Democrats will have to do in order to turn the tide?

A change in ownership of the red tops for a start - impossible I know. It's an uphill struggle for Labour and the LibDems when the majority of adults in the country read and believe the right wing press.