So, who votes for a government that improves the lives of Bankers, and ensures the excessive profits of energy companies, but needs all the "levelling up" money to pay for the holes in Brexit?

karmalady

Germanshepherdsmum

It seems that some posters are unaware of the importance of our financial services industry to our economy.

absolutely. London would not be wealthy without financial services and that would trickle down to everywhere. Many people can only see what is in front of them and don`t have much knowledge about the financial services

Trickle down economics doesn't work. I'd love to know who these "many people" are.

Germanshepherdsmum

It seems that some posters are unaware of the importance of our financial services industry to our economy.

Oh I'm quite aware of how important they have managed to convince some people they are. I also know it's an international market. I simply question the necessity of paying bonuses at such high levels because someone has achieved a certain position. Are there really not efficient people who would work for less?
And I will reveal a personal perspective I have a relative who worked independently in finance, provided a service to banks he charged for, and went off abroad at one point when a foreign bank made him an offer he couldn't refuse. The point being that he was more able than those getting banker's bonuses in this country, but chose to work independently and paid tax accordingly. His income came from services he provided to banks and individuals and not because he was head of anything.

Financial services aren't all about investment banking.

Trickle down is a myth. It has never ever happened. Just a sop to persuade voter to go along with inequality and policies that ensure the wealthy keep more of their vast wealth

It seems strange that this seems to be the only benefit of Brexit the government can come up with, most people would, I’m sure, rather they tackle the crisis in the utilities, brought in stricter regulations on discharging sewage into our waterways for one.

I’m sure this will be a real vote winner for the Tories.

I can just imagine voters in the red wall constituencies struggling with the cost of living saying “ those bankers really need a massive yearly bonus”

karmalady

Germanshepherdsmum

It seems that some posters are unaware of the importance of our financial services industry to our economy.

absolutely. London would not be wealthy without financial services and that would trickle down to everywhere. Many people can only see what is in front of them and don`t have much knowledge about the financial services

The flaw in your argument is that 'trickle down' doesn't work. The last 12 years of tory government has been based on Trickle down' and all it has done is seen an increase in inequality and a drop in the real value of wages.

Increasing the incomes of people who already have enough to pay for all the necessities of life and the non necessities isn't going to encourage them to spend more into the domestic economy, because they don't need to.

OTOH, as I have pointed out to deaf ears so many times before, increasing the wages of the 'ordinary' workers leads to economic growth as they consume more of the goods and services provided by the domestic economy. Hospitality, sport, leisure activities, hairdressers, clothes retailers etc. etc.

We will never achieve any sort of fairness and equality in this country if people insist on approving the greed of the already wealthy and close their eyes to simple economic truths.

Germanshepherdsmum

It seems that some posters are unaware of the importance of our financial services industry to our economy.

I would love to learn GSM. Particularly why it is seen to be the main, if not for some the only, vehicle of importance to the economy.

Pantglas2

Surely we’ll see the answer to this at the next election...

But people voted to get what we now have Pantglas2. We knew what they were going to do. They told us.

Obviously, we cannot think that all people disagree with what the Conservative government does. I have a very well-educated, successful, intelligent friend who would agree with the well-educated, hopefully successful and intelligent GSM.

I want to know the facts so we can "help the country" - the common mantra from those who want what this far-right, ERG-driven government does - and ALL the people. I do not believe relying so much on the "service industry", paying so much to the few who work in it, is the answer but obviously other do.

Then there is Brexit and the holes that appeared in that. The Conservative voter, whatever they voted in the referendum, knew they were facilitating this. Again, money not going to hard-pressed communities who have had an unequal investment from the centre, for years.

And the last one of those I flagged is paying the energy companies to keep their prices up. Seriously - why would you do that?

Germanshepherdsmum

It seems that some posters are unaware of the importance of our financial services industry to our economy.

I don’t agree, I think that people are very aware of the importance of the financial services to the U.K., which unfortunately has been lessoned since Brexit.

However, I’m not sure why that importance should equal confetti yearly payments.

Yes, financial services is important, but the current cap on bonuses (2x annual salary) has not held it back in the last few years , when the city has been booming , arguably it is Brexit and the fall in the £ which has caused problems. Are we saying 2 x annual ( high) salary is not enough for anyone?

I agree *Whitewavemark. I also think the decision needs to be put into the current context, these bankers won’t have the same opportunities to relocate to other countries in Europe for more money that they did pre-Brexit, so the concept of a brain drain is much less real.

Who in all honesty deserves such huge bonuses? A 28yr old I know has bought three houses since graduating using bonuses not cheap houses either London, Cotswolds? Makes me feel ill thinking about it. Nurses, carers however find themselves having to use food banks. There is something very very wrong. I couldn’t live with myself - greed pure greed.

Copy of my reply to GSM

I can understand your argument up to a point, but the real issue with the confetti money they received prior to the crash in 2008 was the fact that it encouraged the very thing which caused the crash.

If you cap the bankers bonus they take far fewer reckless risks. Kwartang May go for bonus deferrals, but it has been shown not to reduce the level of risk as much as capping does. Capping works because the bankers get paid the same, no matter how much profit they make their bank. There is as a result less incentive to go gambling on the money markets and invent reckless snd ultimately illegal leverage schemes which caused the market to crash so disastrously.

That is good news for the tax payer who was forced to bail the banks out as a result if this uncontrolled gambling. No doubt the debt incurred by supporting the banks is still washing around in the system.

The capping was if course enforced by EU policy so it is no surprise that Kwartang is intent on getting rid of it, but he must also take responsibility for the increase in risk.

The Guardian reported in February that there was a run on the poshest champagne as a result of the highest bonuses paid since 2008.. so I hardly think that the poor souls are exactly scrapping the barrel, snd with the cost of living crises hitting so many, it is not a good look.

Germanshepherdsmum

It seems that some posters are unaware of the importance of our financial services industry to our economy.

I can’t understand why the city thought it was going to be more profitable after Brexit.
Less regulations maybe to handle dodgy money, certainly more opportunities for speculators to benefit from instability.

Genuine honest advantages, have there been any?.

Germanshepherdsmum

It seems that some posters are unaware of the importance of our financial services industry to our economy.

absolutely. London would not be wealthy without financial services and that would trickle down to everywhere. Many people can only see what is in front of them and don`t have much knowledge about the financial services

Oh, and in answer to the question in the OP - not me. And like Iam says, nobody in my immediate circle does either.

'To make the rich worker harder, we pay them more. To make the poor work harder, we pay them less.'

That really is the basis on which capitalism operates, and it's justified on so many levels - usually by pretending that we live in a meritocracy. A dentist lets people who have paid NI all their lives suffer agonising pain because they can't afford the treatment, and that's market forces. A train driver makes someone late for work and that's holding the country to ransom. A quick google suggests that an NHS dentist earns roughly twice the salary of a train driver, but that's ok because she has trained for years (although she doesn't pay anything like the cost of the course), while it's unreasonable of a train driver to want to hang onto his pension, conditions of service and job security, even though he works unsocial hours, has the lives of hundreds of passengers in his hands and risks having people jumping under the train he's driving. Train drivers should think themselves lucky to earn a bit above average salary, but dentists are suffering so much that it's understandable that they are refusing to take NHS patients.

I know it's not as simple as that, and I'm neither demonising dentists nor sanctifying train drivers - they were just the first occupational groups to come to mind - but that way of thinking is typical of why we have such inequality.

'Some posters'? Who are they? I am aware of the importance of financial services to the economy, but I am also aware of the importance of nurses, care workers and other groups who do not have their importance rewarded by financial incentives. If anyone can explain why that is, I might reconsider my opinion that it is grossly unfair. True, not everyone can be a good banker, but neither can everyone be a good carer - I know I couldn't.

It seems that some posters are unaware of the importance of our financial services industry to our economy.

It always amuses me when someone uses the "Oh we need to pay bankers more because otherwise we won't have anyone" excuse as quite often those same people complain about train drivers going on strike for more pay, because they disrupt essential services. It seems fairly obvious to me that there are few top bankers and therefore many people available and wanting the role, so the money really isn't an issue. (and executive bankers are not an essential service). Whereas we need many properly trained and properly paid train drivers to keep travel safe.
I suppose it's a question of if you value money or people more.

I don't know who voted for this bunch anyway. But I think some people still expect them to pull something out the bag- Hope Springs Eternal!

However is it just a myth that the rich have such clever accountants that any tax due simply fades away?

Banks don't invest anything, they lend money for business investment and make their profits from interest charged on the loans.

I assume that they also handle the money from overseas investors, at a price.

Given that, I'm not sure what 'more banks' would do for our economy...

Germanshepherdsmum

I have already said on another thread that removing the cap on bankers’ bonuses is a good move.

The economy relies heavily on financial services and it’s vital that our banks are able to compete with, for instance, US banks which do not cap bonuses.

Furthermore, the tax paid by recipients of bonuses will be far higher than the banks would have paid had the money been retained.

If they pay any tax GSM. If I knew they would pay at least the same percentage on all their earnings as those at the bottom of the tax scale do, that would be a start. But I simply don't believe this government will make that happen.

The government’s priorities are clearly to increase the inflow of tax to the Treasury without increasing the rates of tax we all pay, and to maintain the financial services sector’s important contribution to GDP.

London is already known as the laundromat of the world. This is the reason for Brexit.