US & UK are poor societies with some very rich people.

The Twitter thread was certainly interesting, but I think the FT is seeing me as too poor to read the article by either access Thank you for bringing this to us Whitewave; it is quite shocking, or would be if I had anything left to shock.

You ask Which is more important to you and then offer one of two choices:

1. That the UK is an over all wealthy nation?
or
2. That wealth is better distributed within the UK population?^

These are the choices offered by the two extremes in our FPTP system. Why could we not govern so that we have a wealthy nation where the rich have even higher standards of living than in other countries, but the poor are also living better than elsewhere? The idea that we could all be better off and still not have such a wide gap between rich and poor seems not to be something that neither the far-right nor far-left in this country can contemplate.

I believe that until the two major parties accept that “we must all hang together, or most assuredly, we will all hang separately”, then we will simply go on swinging from one extreme to the other.

Our country has not faced up to any of this. There must be discussions for at least a fairer society, do you think this is down to political parties- I can't see that happening!

Baaad TORIES‼️ (Again) ?
Maybe we should just vote Labour in and have done with it as most of GN posters would love that anyway.
Mind you, looking back (Blair PPI debacle), Brown (cashing in the family silver) it’s never plain sailing whoever is in.

Re the OP
Where would you rather live? A society where the rich are extraordinarily rich and the poor are very poor, or one where the rich are merely very well off but even those on the lowest incomes also enjoy a decent standard of living?
A fatuous question. I can’t imagine anyone, rich or poor, saying they wouldn’t prefer the second option.

I’d like to see the wealth better distributed across the UK. Increased taxes would help, if the money raised by doing that was actually distributed to those who need it, not to those who know how to work the system to benefit from it.

Norway succeeds in your apparent need for the rich to get richer but takes the rest of the population with it.

Perhaps the UK needs to look at how Norway is achieving that. Norway does have its share of people living in poverty and it’s rising, but I read that extreme poverty is rare.

Urmstongran

The UK is a magnet for some to come to. It must suit them or they wouldn’t keep trying to get in. But how we ‘level up’ is the bigger question. It would be wonderful if we could do it.

We have far less asylum seekers than many European countries

Urmstongran

What is the population of Norway though? About the same as Scotland I imagine? Easier to govern less citizens perhaps and make real change.

Norway of course ensured that the wealth from North Sea oil was invested for the future good of it’s citizens.

They have recently used income from this investment to support and protect their citizens from extortionate energy price rises.

Thatcher completely squandered it. And Truss intends to tax the U.K. citizens in order to pay for the loan to the energy companies.

The UK is a magnet for some to come to. It must suit them or they wouldn’t keep trying to get in. But how we ‘level up’ is the bigger question. It would be wonderful if we could do it.

The U.K. citizen is poorer on average than most European countries, and if we continue to follow the trajectory that the Tories have placed us on Slovenia and Polish average citizen will be better off by the end of this decade.

What is the population of Norway though? About the same as Scotland I imagine? Easier to govern less citizens perhaps and make real change.

Perhaps our government could look at best practice in other ‘rich’ countries and see how they manage wealth inequality. I’m sure many European countries have similar problems though from what I’ve read and seen.

Germanshepherdsmum

But, MissA, this woman had a mother.

I agree, Norah. A lot of wealthy people do good with their money but don’t shout about it.

I'm sure you are aware it was a poor example GSM and that a poor example does not mean that people do not die from poverty in this country.

Norway’s richest have some of highest living standards of rich people in any country, while Norway’s poorest also fare better than poor people anywhere.

We have a government that has been of the same party (or so they tell us) for over 12 years and their achievement is far from this. Norway succeeds in your apparent need for the rich to get richer but takes the rest of the population with it. Why is it that our government is unable to do that? Could it be that, like some on this forum, they believe you should be able to take what you can from society and those that don't succeed should be left to the charities.

I am quite convinced this is the view of what should now be called, our ERG Government. It really does appear to be the view of some on here too.

Whitewavemark2

Maudi

Some 37,000 asylum seekers and Afghan refugees are living in UK hotels at a cost of £4.7m per day, revised Home Office figures show.

A Home Office official said yesterday the total hotel bill was £1.2m a day but the department has since clarified the actual overall daily cost is £4.7m.

It it understood the £1.2m is to accommodate Afghan refugees and another £3.5m a day is spent on asylum seekers.

A spokesman said the use of hotels was unacceptable and a short-term solution.(copied from BBC website)

Perhaps if we weren't spending astronomical amounts on housing asylum /illegals in 4 star hotels, providing health care/dentists, food, pocket money the list goes on there would be more money available, oh no forgot some posters welcome the dinghy boats, perhaps you can't have it both ways, there is only a certain amount of money to go round, perhaps its time to get our priorities right and look after our own people first. Please no posts saying they are not illegal blah blah blah.

Perhaps if we set up an efficient system to deal with their applications and offered them work in those industries that are so short sta Fred if they were suitable we would find the accommodation bills being reduced to zero.

Incompetent and ideological bound government.

Thanks for posting Wwm2 It just shows how government propaganda is working. I was at an event last week where some asylum seekers were speaking. Some of them have been here for around 10 years. They want to work and to pay taxes, but they are not allowed to. They are kept hanging around with no idea when their case will be decided. It's an impractical and inhumane situation, but it feeds prejudice very well.

Yes

If a business owner is paying a poor wage, they are benefitting from the benefits system, as are gas and electric suppliers who fit pay as you go meters, then charge a higher rate, as are landlords, where the money is paid in both benefits and 'top up' from their tenants.

Yes rent control should be looked at.

Whitewavemark2

What I do think is that the tax payer has been subsidising businesses for years by topping up the poor wages paid by so many with benefits.

There should be a sensible living wage, and it should be made mandatory.

I agree with this too. I also think the cost of housing is causing all sorts of problems, whether that be it rented or mortgage owned and unfortunately I think this is only going to get worse.

Yes.

Norah

Luckygirl3

I would prefer people to give generously to charity and roll up sleeves to help the poor, as part of peoples everyday life.

I can't believe I just read that.

The rich man in his castle, the poor man at his gate ........ what century are you living in?

Do you really want, for example, carers to be paid so poorly that they need to use food banks, and benefit from your generous donations?

Polish your halo all you want, but it is fundamentally wrong for people in the UK to be living in such poverty.

Now I know how the Tories get voted in if there are people around who think like this.

I worked with some of the most disadvantaged people in our society and they have to fight every inch of the way for the right to a decent life - I have proud to have been by their side helping them. That is my halo polishing moment.

I have no halo, just preferences.

"I worked with some of the most disadvantaged people in our society and they have to fight every inch of the way for the right to a decent life - I have proud to have been by their side helping them."

Indeed, we have as well. We've seen many helping along side us.

Do you not think it would be preferable for a government to pursue policies that mean that these people do not need charitable help in the first place? Or do you think it is fine for them to be kept in their place, and for those of us who are luckier to dole out help when we see fit?

Do you not think a living wage should be a right? People are just people - some get dealt a good hand, others do not. It is the government's job to make sure that those at the bottom of the heap are helped to live with dignity.

What I do think is that the tax payer has been subsidising businesses for years by topping up the poor wages paid by so many with benefits.

There should be a sensible living wage, and it should be made mandatory.

MaizieD

GrannyGravy13

How do you propose to redistribute the wealthy folks earned income?

Confiscate a percentage of their bank balance and hold a lottery for the poorest in society to see who gets a bit?

Perhaps instead of starting at the point where you're defending the right of the wealthy to hang onto every penny, you could look at how to improve the lot of the poorest in our very unequal society. By legislating for a living wage and decent welfare benefits, for a start. By regarding 'the poor' as human beings with the same basic needs as everyone else, not as parasites on 'the rich'.

Read my post of 10.25 this morning where I said that there is need for a conversation to be had regarding the minimum wage being elevated to a living wage.

youtu.be/245U5fkSkKI

If anyone is interested, it is only 26 mins long, and cuts straight to the point about two or three people, and how it can be that suicide/death is a direct consequence of the benefits system.

Its telling that you have to confirm that you have read the warning before watching the video.

volver

It has changed nanna8. This country is on its knees.

It has changed and this change has been deliberate, as it has in the US.

nanna8

It’s changed then. I find that difficult to comprehend.

If you are not poor nanna8, you won't see it. There isn't just a division in income but in where you live, etc. Even if we don't live in a physically gated community, we tend to live in a mentally gated one.

Norah

GrannyGravy13

I am all for a safety net for those who are unable to work for whatever reason. I think that is what all societies should provide.

Just fed up with the continuous threads, berating the rich and blaming them for all the worlds ills.

Precisely.

I don’t berate people who are wealthy. People are just people as far as I can see. The wealthy are there not because of “hard work” - most people work hard. But because of luck and good breaks.

But I do berate those wealthy who ensure that they pay as little tax as possible.

I also berate the tax system that fails to ensure a more equal society.

I note that the BoE independence is being compromised.

Kwartang has insisted on a twice weekly meeting with the Govenor.

No surprise.