Obesity is just poor decision-making!

Taxation does work to reduce demand - cigarettes becoming more and more expensive has led to a fall in the number of smokers, charging for plastic bags has led to far fewer of them and more people bringing their own bags shopping. Taxing sugary snacks more would lead to fewer being bought, but the manufacturers have come up with ways to avoid this by adding more processed and artificial ingredients, so something could be done about that. Yes, it’s a complex issue, but all the more reason why the government should be involved in addressing the problem of obesity and unhealthy choices and not just leaving it to the market and private profit to influence peoples choices.

janejudge said in reply to a comment of mine: they didn't have access to food as we do

Exactly! I keep saying that the super-abundance of cheap food (it is cheap compared to what is was a hundred years ago – fewer hours' work pays for the same quantity of food) is the problem and we haven't evolved to deal with that yet.

There are no easy solutions. It's going to take many generations.

I'm still not sure government interference is helpful simply because it has done absolutely NO GOOD so far if increasing numbers of obese people is anything to go by.

I've begun listening to this podcast where Dr Tess Lawrie talks to Prof Robyn Crawford. About five minutes in, they begin talking about our relationship to food.

Raw link here: drtesslawrie.substack.com/p/tess-talks-with-professor-robyn-cosford?utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email

I'm still not sure government interference is helpful simply because it has done absolutely NO GOOD so far if increasing numbers of obese people is anything to go by.

Would you like to tell us about the government interference that hasn't been helpful, Baggs. Because as I see it, any government attempt at altering behaviour, such as purchasing decisions, usually seems to be in the form of 'advice' rather than positive action and easily overwhelmed or countered by vested commercial interests.

My DD works in this field. I must interrogate her ?

Baggs

janejudge said in reply to a comment of mine: they didn't have access to food as we do

Exactly! I keep saying that the super-abundance of cheap food (it is cheap compared to what is was a hundred years ago – fewer hours' work pays for the same quantity of food) is the problem and we haven't evolved to deal with that yet.

There are no easy solutions. It's going to take many generations.

I'm still not sure government interference is helpful simply because it has done absolutely NO GOOD so far if increasing numbers of obese people is anything to go by.

They also used to die of work related illnesses when they were very young Baggs. Is dying of obesity any worse? I'm a bit conflicted tbh

They also used to die of work related illnesses when they were very young Baggs. Is dying of obesity any worse? I'm a bit conflicted tbh

Conflicted. Me too. My grandad died of mining related emphysema at too young an age. He had little if any choice about his job. My dad died of lung cancer (he 'chose' to smoke and became too addicted to stop, although he did try. He might have had better luck nowadays) even younger. I don't think dying of obesity is worse. It's similar and I often wonder if over-eating is an addiction problem.

Maizie's comment about government advice or 'nudging' is interesting and I bow to her daughter's greater knowledge. But I also know that not all government advice about food has been good and much has been influenced by people who at other times many GNers would regard as deplorable capitalists (makers of trans fats, etc).

Baggs

*They also used to die of work related illnesses when they were very young Baggs. Is dying of obesity any worse? I'm a bit conflicted tbh*

Conflicted. Me too. My grandad died of mining related emphysema at too young an age. He had little if any choice about his job. My dad died of lung cancer (he 'chose' to smoke and became too addicted to stop, although he did try. He might have had better luck nowadays) even younger. I don't think dying of obesity is worse. It's similar and I often wonder if over-eating is an addiction problem.

Maizie's comment about government advice or 'nudging' is interesting and I bow to her daughter's greater knowledge. But I also know that not all government advice about food has been good and much has been influenced by people who at other times many GNers would regard as deplorable capitalists (makers of trans fats, etc).

Another good post Baggs
Lobbyist have a lot to answer for.

Taxation works, but only when the product cannot be changed. A cigarette, is a cigarette , is a cigarette. You cannot swap the tobacco for straw or other substitute. Plstic bags likewise.

The problem with taxing food stuffs is that it has ramifications. The tax on sugar has not just meant that the manufacturers have reduced the amount of sugar in drinks and they are now less sweet. Manufacturers have replaced the sugar with sweeteners and, I have read, that many soft drinks are sweeter than they used to be.

The purpose of the sugar tax is to break our addiction to sugar, but that will only happen when we break our addiction to sweetness and the current sugar tax does not do that so it so like watering plants in the rain.

The other problem, and I admit this is a personal grumble, is that I am among the many people who can always taste sweeteners in a product and dislike the taste. Since the sugar tax, I have had to stop drinking soft drinks and have several times ordered a drink and then not drunk it because the smell or first sip tells me it has sweeteners in it.

All it has done, is led me to drink more alcohol! Because before when we went out for a drink I would order a soft drink, now I order a beer or lager because there is no way of finding out whether any soft drink a pub serves will contain sweetener or not.

There's always Adam's Ale, MOnica.

Or soda water or pure fruit juices

I decided to explore this topic some more.

Apparently one in three women have experienced some sort of sexual abuse or violence... here is an article about the correlation between obesity and sexual abuse.

www.incecounseling.com/blog/hiding-behind-weight-the-correlation-between-childhood-sexual-abuse-and-obesity

MaizieD

There's always Adam's Ale, MOnica.

Or soda water or pure fruit juices

Pure Fruit Juices are full of sugar. They are one of the first foods on the "banned" foods for diabetics!

I think some indication of how much sugar is hidden in our food would be a good idea.
But I'm not sure how you stop people feeding their children inappropriate food. There is loads of advice around about diet, but very young children are given inappropriate food at an early age, so creating demands in their body which are only satisfied by increasing amounts of sugar and fat rich products. The obesity problem runs alongside the dental problem created by the same diet. Children as young as two are having teeth extracted because they are so decayed. It's a massive cost for the NHS. Perhaps the sugar industry should pay a tax which is paid directly to the NHS as recompense for the damage it does.
And perhaps all sweet products should carry a health warning and some info about age restriction.

I can't disagree with the arguments here, but I must add that many of the children I taught in my time in an area of high deprivation, and many of my "clients" at foodbank seem underweight to me.

There are many different opinions voiced on here which proves that’s it’s a complex issue.
Pure fruit if lovely but very high in sugar and avoided by any diabetics.
Another issue that confuses me is that children in school - especially in my experience - in the north of England are given sweets as treats for good behaviour still on a regular, daily basis. That seems crazy to me! Grandsons at secondary school had both had sweet treats at school this week. Haribos or Maltesers. This is definitely not setting a good example,

Being fat is frequently associated with poverty/lower incomes. As someone on here has already said, cheaper foods tend to be higher calorie/unhealthy.

The focus on being overweight has distinctly classist tones to it.

My own take on it is that I try hard to pack my DGS a healthy lunch box for school everyday, despite his exceptionally fussy habits. Home made food, packed full of veg and protein (necessary to consider protein intake, because he's a veggie who doesn't like cheese or beans/pulses). Despite this, he received a note asking us not to put cake or biscuits in his lunchbox (what they thought were biscuits, were cheese straws made with lentil flour and carrots). Only to find that TWICE last week, the teacher was giving out sweets as the children left school. Seems like a bit of a mixed message to me!

GreyKnitter

There are many different opinions voiced on here which proves that’s it’s a complex issue.
Pure fruit if lovely but very high in sugar and avoided by any diabetics.
Another issue that confuses me is that children in school - especially in my experience - in the north of England are given sweets as treats for good behaviour still on a regular, daily basis. That seems crazy to me! Grandsons at secondary school had both had sweet treats at school this week. Haribos or Maltesers. This is definitely not setting a good example,

GreyKnitter I'm very surprised at that. Sweets as a reward were banned in the N of England primary school I taught in when I retired over15 years ago. In fact I don't know of any schools where it is still considered acceptable. There may be one or two but it isn't usual practice even up North. Get their parents to lobby the PTA and have the sweets removed.

GagaJo

Being fat is frequently associated with poverty/lower incomes. As someone on here has already said, cheaper foods tend to be higher calorie/unhealthy.

The focus on being overweight has distinctly classist tones to it.

My own take on it is that I try hard to pack my DGS a healthy lunch box for school everyday, despite his exceptionally fussy habits. Home made food, packed full of veg and protein (necessary to consider protein intake, because he's a veggie who doesn't like cheese or beans/pulses). Despite this, he received a note asking us not to put cake or biscuits in his lunchbox (what they thought were biscuits, were cheese straws made with lentil flour and carrots). Only to find that TWICE last week, the teacher was giving out sweets as the children left school. Seems like a bit of a mixed message to me!

Gagajo protest! protest! We had one member of staff who used to try giving sweets sometimes and a very active parent/governor who used to complain about it. It certainly stopped her for a bit.

I took my grandson to primary school this week - he's just started P1 - and he ran up to see one of his wee friends. I was horrified to see that the friend and his sister were busy sucking on huge push-up lollipop things. This was before school - their mum then said 'put them in your bags and you can have them again at playtime'. The children are told only to bring healthy snacks for playtime - lunches are provided for all the children (unless parents want to send a packed lunch, of course), so there's no excuse for that. You see others drinking fizzy juice and so on too. I was quite shocked, to be honest.

After years of Austerity and families seeing no chance of buying their own home - consequently paying ever increasing rent resulting in less security, we wonder that we have an obesity crisis.. Is there any wonder that families turn to cheaper food and when both partners are working they turn to faster food. When I was a young mum there was no such thing as food banks and yet now there are more food banks than there are McDonalds. This Government have a duty to support people through this terrifying time, to help with the catastrophic outcomes of their policies over 12 years. They want you to blame each person, to point to people with weight problems with disdain, make them the problem. It lets them off the hook. Don’t let them get away with it. They need to help people by giving them more guidance and more money to help them have the power to make better choices.

M0nica

Medical research is also finding genetic reasons why some people gain more weight than others.

It is such a cliche for the smug so and sos whose genetic inheritance contributes to their enviably slim figures to blame everyone elses overweight on selfish ill disciplined life styles.

No, I am not overweight, but there are members of my family, who are in their 50s, active (swimming 10 plus miles a week) plus wild swimming, whose blood pressure, and sugar levels are at levels that make doctors smile, yet despite a sensible diet are still overweight and have been since birth.

A lot is explained in 'Why we eat too much.'
According to the book, we have less control over our weight management than is usually acknowledged.

The problem is defining what is too much food for each individual. Some people's metabolisms are much less efficient than other people's

This is a question for those who believe that obesity is due to bad decisions. I am seriously obese. My sugar levels, thyroid and blood pressure are text book normal. Here's my daily food choices. Breakfast and lunch are the same every day unless we're out when it will be a ham and salad sandwich. I record my food intake on MFP. I average 1700 calories a day. If obesity is due to bad decision making can someone tell me where I'm going wrong.

My daily menu:
Breakfast: porridge
Lunch: homemade vegetable soup with 2 crispbreads.
Tea: meat and veg; curry and rice; spag bol; etc. all cooked from scratch.
Snacks/desserts: fruit, low cal yoghurts

Occasional treats (no more than twice a week and usually less). Usually, a slice of cake or an ice cream.

Drinks: black coffee; no sugar squash; water.

I exercise every day either walking, cycling or online exercise (Couch to Fitness).

I've no idea vampirequeen but I'd like to.

I'm sure your weight settles at a level at a certain age and may fluctuate a little but rarely by a drastic amount no matter how hard you try.

icanhandthemback

MaizieD

There's always Adam's Ale, MOnica.

Or soda water or pure fruit juices

Pure Fruit Juices are full of sugar. They are one of the first foods on the "banned" foods for diabetics!

The two healthy eating podcasts I’ve just listened to said that orange juice should have a health warning on it.

Vampirequeen Cut out the porridge, bread, pasta, rice and treats (or, at least, only eat minute portions). Reduce your intake to 1200-1300 calories a day for a month and see if it makes any difference.

PS. Exercise doesn't have a huge effect on weight.