Another Benefit of Brexit?

varian

Sadly Grantanow it seems that Labour do not seem to have the guts to rejoin the EU or even the Customs Union and Single Market even though all the evidence points to brexit having been a disaster.

The Labour Party has always been willing to be bullied by the red tops and the minority of their voters who supported this lunacy.

Do you think it was a minority of of their voters who supported Brexit if so why did the Conservatives gain so many seats from traditional Labour regions

Normandygirl

" I hope Labour will have the guts to rejoin the EU but we shall never get the same terms as before."

I think that is the saddest part of all. The UK's membership deal was one of the best in the EU. A top 5 position with so many opt outs and veto's that other member countries could only dream of. Any rejoin deal would have none of the advantages we have so recklessly thrown away.

I agree. I think the road back to Europe for this country will be a long one and we first need, under a Labour government ( with help from the LibDems and Greens) , to rebuild our relationship with our neighbours and regain the respect and trust that Johnson and now Truss have lost us.

rosie1959

varian

Sadly Grantanow it seems that Labour do not seem to have the guts to rejoin the EU or even the Customs Union and Single Market even though all the evidence points to brexit having been a disaster.

The Labour Party has always been willing to be bullied by the red tops and the minority of their voters who supported this lunacy.

Do you think it was a minority of of their voters who supported Brexit if so why did the Conservatives gain so many seats from traditional Labour regions

The Labour vote in the referendum was split. People living in the cities tended to vote to remain. Generally, they are younger and more diverse and there are more job opportunities. People in the small towns, especially those where industry/manufacturing has declined and who tend to be older, voted to leave. These are the people in the so-called "red wall" seats. Many of them saw that voting Labour hadn't done much for them, so they voted for a party which might bring about change. They were told that EU workers were taking their jobs and undercutting them. I know of one Conservative candidate who actually told voters that voting Conservative would attract funding.

It's been estimated that 70% of Labour voters voted to remain, but the headache for Labour is that if you break that down into constituencies about 70% of constituencies voted to leave.

Another good reason to change to PR growstuff

"These are the people in the so-called "red wall" seats. Many of them saw that voting Labour hadn't done much for them, so they voted for a party which might bring about change."

Labour had not been in power for 9 years by the time of the election so I fail to see how they could have done anything to help them. How could voting for the same party that had been in power for the last 9 years bring about " change"?

Normandygirl People don't always think rationally, when they vote. Some people fell for the myths of division and believed that others in Conservative controlled areas were better off. They are, of course, because the government has been fiddling with grants, so that cuts have fallen most heavily in Labour controlled areas. People in the "red wall" were also duped most readily by the anti-EU rhetoric.

varian

Another good reason to change to PR growstuff

It depends how a PR system were organised.

These are the people in the so-called "red wall" seats. Many of them saw that voting Labour hadn't done much for them,

The referendum wasn't a tory/Labour contest. As far as I understand it many red wall people voted Leave to give Cameron a bloody nose. It was the tory government they were voting against, nothing to do with Labour.

Sorry, are we talking about the referendum, as per growstuff at 14.52, or are we talking about the 2019 election, as per Normandygirl at 17.22?

I'm a bit confused.

I think we are still talking about the fraudulent referendum of 2016

Why does anyone think that we should be seeing the benefits of Brexit immediately? Since voting to leave we have spent years arguing to stay, we have had a global pandemic and war in Europe for the first time in decades. We were in the EU for over forty years. It will take a long time to disentangle ourselves from all the rules and regulations associated with membership and become a truly independent state again.

The journey has only just begun.

June 2016 was 6 Years ago, 4 years before Covid . Plenty of time to have made a start at least, given all those promises ( all turned to dust).

You just might be right GrannyRose

According to Jacob Rees Mogg we might just see the "benefits of brexit" in fifty years.

I don't know how old you are but I do know I won't be here in 50 years.

There us an affiliated society:
The Labour Movement For Europe:

www.labourmovementforeurope.uk/

The chair is Stella Creasey.

The Labour Movement for Europe (LME) is the only pro-EU society affiliated to the Labour Party in the United Kingdom. It is one of 20 "socialist societies" affiliated to the UK Labour Party, just like the Fabians and The Jewish Labour Movement.

It gives you voting rights.
Might be worth considering if you are basically pro EU and Labour.

varian

You just might be right GrannyRose

According to Jacob Rees Mogg we might just see the "benefits of brexit" in fifty years.

I don't know how old you are but I do know I won't be here in 50 years.

In the meantime- 50 years has just doubled or more...

Bloomberg reporting the U.K. has lost £500 billion since Truss and Kwarteng announced their ‘fiscal event’.

That’s over 13 Dido Hardings.

Or 250 Mars missions.

Or about 30 years’ membership of the EU.

Or enough to buy free school lunches for every primary school pupil in the country for 100 years.

GrannyRose15

Why does anyone think that we should be seeing the benefits of Brexit immediately? Since voting to leave we have spent years arguing to stay, we have had a global pandemic and war in Europe for the first time in decades. We were in the EU for over forty years. It will take a long time to disentangle ourselves from all the rules and regulations associated with membership and become a truly independent state again.

The journey has only just begun.

It's taken no time at all "to free ourselves" from the pesky rules on working hours directives, clean water and tax evasion, but it will take until 2023 to get rid of the awful rules on consumer protection, health and safety, financial regulation and human rights, so we all should be living in brexit utopia in 18 months.

This suggests that most of the shortfall is down to Brexit, not Covid. Before the pandemic, the shortfall was sizeable, and leaving the single market will have raised the GDP cost of Brexit further. The UK had a particularly deep recession in 2020, but it ended Covid restrictions sooner than many of its peers, thanks in part to starting its vaccination campaign early in 2021. That should have made its recovery from Covid faster than other countries, not slower. We shall see whether the UK closes the gap with the doppelgänger in future data releases. But it should trouble Labour and the Conservatives, who have both been silent on the impact of Brexit on the country’s economic performance, that the economy is lagging so far behind.

www.cer.eu/publications/archive/policy-brief/2022/cost-brexit-so-far

Another Brexit "benefit".....

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-63984360

So we lose potential tourists to Eire.

Brexit just keeps on giving! (For the avoidance of doubt this post is satirical).

fb.watch/ioIDCaBTT-/

from the mouth of te people who know, business people.

"•Brexit is costing the UK economy one million pounds per hour (ONS)
•Brexit means we have around £20 billion a year less available for public spending (Full Fact/UK Statistic Authority)
•Brexit has lost around 330,000 workers from the UK economy."

Petera

"•Brexit is costing the UK economy one million pounds per hour (ONS)
•Brexit means we have around £20 billion a year less available for public spending (Full Fact/UK Statistic Authority)
•Brexit has lost around 330,000 workers from the UK economy."

Growth can’t happen unless businesses expand, they are not expanding because they cannot find extra workers and borrowing is too expensive. Many are finding it difficult to continue and growth is a distant dream.

Growth can’t happen unless businesses expand, they are not expanding because they cannot find extra workers and borrowing is too expensive. Many are finding it difficult to continue and growth is a distant dream.

'Growth' also depends on people having money to spend. All businesses depend, either directly or indirectly, on consumers buying their products. Refusing to fund public services (which are a very significant engine for growth) and to grant pay increases for people to cope with inflation, is destroying our economy. The Bank of England's ridiculous and ineffectual interest rate rises are making it worse by driving inflation.

Do stop blaming Brexit for everything! The truth is that most of this country's problems are caused by our weak, inefficient, incompetent left-wing government.
David Cameron called the referendum in order to prove that UKIP was a lost cause. He wasn't prepared for the result and had no plan in place for a 'Leave' result.
There never has been a plan because it was never really anyone's intention to leave the EU.
Our politicians have become so used to living by someone else's rules that they have lost the ability to think for themselves.