Another Benefit of Brexit?

I see that about needing more doctors Urmstongran but I think you have it wrong about the EU - and so does Nicola Sturgeon I think - as, in actuality we have been making our own laws to suit our own citizens.

My point was that people felt we weren't independent anymore, and that yes, it was a visceral/emotional thing rather than a logical one.

I think we are entitled to vote according to how we feel though... unfortunately

Urmstongran

Yes, I understand you NotSpaghetti about part time working. Our eldest daughter who works as a speech & language therapist in Yorkshire works a 4 day week for the NHS. I think my point was more that if 2/3 of trainee doctors say they plan to do similar, or less, we need to train more up to take up the slack. We don’t have enough doctors in primary health care nowadays as it is.

And to a large extent I agree with your husband about the Brexit vote. It was visceral. It’s about independence, making our own laws to suit our own citizens. Having autonomy.

Just ask Nicola Sturgeon!

Yes, calculations about the number of doctors traines never accounted for

a) young women who mostly became GPs rather than hospital Consultants/spécialists, who have traditionally worked part time for generations

b) all those who are leaving the NHS to either work privately, or who have moved abroad for better conditions and pay

c) all those new doctors who have re-assessed their lives and do not wish to work themselves into burn out, health issues and an early grave, like their seniors did.

The shortfall would take 10 years to be made up- even if conditions were ideal. As such, young people are not going into medicine, and those who do, as said, intend to work part-time or leave for sunnier and more lucrative shores.

Sadly I have to agree with you, NotSpaghetti.

My vote to remain in the EU in 1975 also was underlaid by emotional reasons. But the reverse of those you cite for the Leave voters. I felt very strongly that we were hovering on the edge of Europe, and quite detached from it, but, as a European nation, we should be much more part of the continent. I also felt that it was a huge step towards doing away with the enmity between European nations which has existed for centuries. Particularly the enmity felt towards those nations we had fought against in two World Wars.

Sadly, despite our position at the 'Top Table' in Europe and our big influence on the creation of EU law and regulations, it has become notably apparent that that enmity still exists and it was well exploited by the leaders of the Leave campaigns.

It really saddens me.

I find it ironic that I have recently seen Leave voters on this forum applauding Macron's idea of a 'Political Club' of European nations...

I agree with you too MaisieD
Even a supposedly rational decision is sealed by the way we feel.

I find it ironic that I have recently seen Leave voters on this forum applauding Macron's idea of a 'Political Club' of European nations...

Not me.

Remember all those, not so long ago?

Complete b*ll*cks indeed

fb.watch/fIvwUQ7SfB/

Brexiteers are faith based. It's a cult. No amount of fact-based, rational argument can change faith. I've given up arguing with Brexet believers.

I wonder how many are making a killing betting against the Pound at the moment? Very lucrative, and straight out of Rees-Mogg senior's handbook of disaster politics. A handful make tons and tons of money, as the rest get poorer and poorer.

Grantanow

Brexiteers are faith based. It's a cult. No amount of fact-based, rational argument can change faith. I've given up arguing with Brexet believers.

Just like the Trump cult

Urmstongran

From personal experience only, I can’t think of anything deleterious offhand that has affected me (or my family for that matter) post Brexit. Am I living in a parallel universe?

How can you say that nothing "deleterious" has affected you from brexit?
On another thread you state that you spend half the year in Spain so how has the new 90day rule not affected you?

There's none so blind as those who will not see.

They can only live in a little "I'm all right" bubble for so long.

I'm pro brexit. I voted for it and am happy yo say I did. The EU is faring no better than we are. There was an aging population of drivers in the uk. Covid shutdowns did not help us one little bit and brexit can hardly be blamed for the weather worldwide affecting crops from coffee to potatoes.

Oh dear.

You can't make statements like this without any evidence. How is the EU not faring any better than UK, How? Figures please.

Nevder mind the weather- who is picking the crops in the UK.

All the evidence available shows that the EU has recovered so much better from Covid than the UK.

The UK economy has fallen far behind the EU since Brexit

Britain’s GDP per head has grown just 3.8 per cent since the referendum, while the EU’s has grown by 8.5 per cent.

The cost of brexit to the UK economy so far is estimated at 4% of GDP.

Immigration now being eased. Migrants being encouraged to come here to work.

We’ve gone full circle??. So a real Brexit bonus!

But we are still without the right to travel freely to EU to work?

Benefit of Brexit is .... can't think of any but there must be some. Surely? Perhaps for other countries who might get better trade deals. In which case it is very altruistic of the UK.

U.K. growth is way below that of the EU. stop pretending Brexit has been of any benefit (which you can’t name), just saying Europe is just as badly off when it isn’t, is no justification for the economic damage Brexit has done.

GrannyGravy13

Some businesses have suffered due to Brexit, but many are flourishing.

policyexchange.org.uk/why-the-centre-for-european-reform-is-wrong-about-brexit/

It's all individual. Matters not how people voted, but what works now.

The UK government’s legislative crackdown on protest in England and Wales was dreamed up by a secretive right-wing think tank that had been funded by US oil giant Exxon Mobil, openDemocracy can reveal.

Policy Exchange explicitly said the government should pass legislation to target Extinction Rebellion (XR) in a 2019 report that got the attention of Tory MPs and peers.

The report called for protest laws to be “urgently reformed in order to strengthen the ability of police to place restrictions on planned protest and deal more effectively with mass law-breaking tactics”.

www.opendemocracy.net/en/dark-money-investigations/policing-bill-policy-exchange-exxonmobil-lobbying/

Policy Exchange has been described by The Telegraph as "The largest and most influential right wing think tank"

Norah

GrannyGravy13

Some businesses have suffered due to Brexit, but many are flourishing.

policyexchange.org.uk/why-the-centre-for-european-reform-is-wrong-about-brexit/

It's all individual. Matters not how people voted, but what works now.

Happy to know that your economic expertise is good enough to know if a right -wing, Brexit supporting think tank's critique of the CER's analysis is valid, Norah

SeaNain

I'm pro brexit. I voted for it and am happy yo say I did. The EU is faring no better than we are. There was an aging population of drivers in the uk. Covid shutdowns did not help us one little bit and brexit can hardly be blamed for the weather worldwide affecting crops from coffee to potatoes.

OK, let's pretend that the EU "is faring no better", how is that a benefit of brexit? What has brexit brought that makes you happy that you voted for it?

The only advantages of Brexit were (1) from Johnson's angle he got elected but what a disaster for the rest of us and (2) it made me look more carefully at prices in supermarkets though now everyone seems to do that. I hope Labour will have the guts to rejoin the EU but we shall never get the same terms as before.

Sadly Grantanow it seems that Labour do not seem to have the guts to rejoin the EU or even the Customs Union and Single Market even though all the evidence points to brexit having been a disaster.

The Labour Party has always been willing to be bullied by the red tops and the minority of their voters who supported this lunacy.

" I hope Labour will have the guts to rejoin the EU but we shall never get the same terms as before."

I think that is the saddest part of all. The UK's membership deal was one of the best in the EU. A top 5 position with so many opt outs and veto's that other member countries could only dream of. Any rejoin deal would have none of the advantages we have so recklessly thrown away.