How soon before the next step to privatising the state schools?

Callistemon21

Mollygo

volver

Can't they all just do what Scotland does?

Have, like, "schools"?

You mean like · 1. Fettes College · 2. Merchiston Castle School · 3. St George's School for Girls (Edinburgh) · 4. Edinburgh Academy · 5. Stewart's Melville ...

You forgot Gordonstoun, Mollygo
And about 95 others, spread right across Scotland!

Wales, however, has just 28, no academies and no grammar schools.

The oldest child was a complete dunderhead. Lovely boy but very Tim nice but dim. He had an eye wateringly expensive education, backed up by a lot of private tutoring and managed a mid-range uni degree. he'd been working-class, he'd have been condemned to a life unemployed after an under funded state education

Are you saying, then, that only those people who have a degree are employable?
And that Tims are dim? ?

Nope. I'm saying that if he had been working class there would have been little chance of even basic literacy, let alone university. I met many, equally nice, children like him in state education.

Tim nice but dim was an upper class Harry Enfield character. Upper class stereotype.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=NC0IJQ_s7No

Luckygirl3
These trusts top slice the money that governments allocate to schools and use it to pay their CEOs, accountants and lawyers. They line their pockets at the expense of the children's education. This government has set things up so that profits can be made from state schools. It is a disgrace. I completely agree. I’ve worked in 2 schools like this. In one, the children were treated like prisoners. Lined up. Shouted at. Made to vomit into sick bags in the classroom, rather than letting them go home when ill and affect absence figures. (This is not my fevered imagination. It happened in MY class 3 times in the 3 months I worked there.) It was tantamount to child abuse.

growstuff
Don't assume that all private schools produce good results. Some of them are unspeakably bad, but at least children don't have to mix with the oiks. Yup. I know of three children who go to schools like this. Very underwhelming achievement.

Monica
Why do you all have these terrible inferiority complexes about private schools. How is it an inferiority complex to care about ALL children and not just those who have parents with money? If anything, it’s callousness from those who don’t care about working class children.

Mollygo

volver

Can't they all just do what Scotland does?

Have, like, "schools"?

You mean like · 1. Fettes College · 2. Merchiston Castle School · 3. St George's School for Girls (Edinburgh) · 4. Edinburgh Academy · 5. Stewart's Melville ...

You forgot Gordonstoun, Mollygo
And about 95 others, spread right across Scotland!

Wales, however, has just 28, no academies and no grammar schools.

The oldest child was a complete dunderhead. Lovely boy but very Tim nice but dim. He had an eye wateringly expensive education, backed up by a lot of private tutoring and managed a mid-range uni degree. he'd been working-class, he'd have been condemned to a life unemployed after an under funded state education

Are you saying, then, that only those people who have a degree are employable?
And that Tims are dim? ?

Ys, those; all in Edinburgh where the percentage of pupils attending fee paying schools is about twice the Scottish national average? I could be wrong about that, please correct me if I am. Edinburgh is another country; they do things differently there.

Most of us just get/got on with attending "schools"

volver

Can't they all just do what Scotland does?

Have, like, "schools"?

You mean like · 1. Fettes College · 2. Merchiston Castle School · 3. St George's School for Girls (Edinburgh) · 4. Edinburgh Academy · 5. Stewart's Melville ...

Mollygo

Growstuff
Yes, the government can create money. Yes they could put it into education. Yes it could be targeted at schools in poorer areas (EPA as they used to be called). That would certainly benefit the pupils displaced by the influx of ex PSC, but they could do that anyway.
If I’m misunderstanding then I’m sorry.
Do parents who send their children to private schools not already pay taxes?
Do private school parents have a say in where there taxes are spent?
Are you suggesting that as a reward for not having to pay school fees to send their children to school where they want to send them, they should pay more taxes and have a say in where those taxes are spent?

What I'm saying is that those who spend money on private school fees could spend their money contributing to the education of all children. Of course, they wouldn't like it! They're not really in favour of sharing.

In any case, although I'd love to see private schools disappear, it won't happen and I'm not going to stress about them. I'm more concerned about the money intended for schools which is ending up in private providers' pockets.

growstuff

PS. I'd go further. Any child with committed parents and small class sizes will do relatively well. They don't have to be very bright.

I have definite experience of this. I worked as a nanny for a titled couple in London when I first left school (terrible comprehensive). The oldest child was a complete dunderhead. Lovely boy but very Tim nice but dim. He had an eye wateringly expensive education, backed up by a lot of private tutoring and managed a mid-range uni degree. If he'd been working-class, he'd have been condemned to a life unemployed after an under funded state education.

Can't they all just do what Scotland does?

Have, like, "schools"?

Growstuff
Yes, the government can create money. Yes they could put it into education. Yes it could be targeted at schools in poorer areas (EPA as they used to be called). That would certainly benefit the pupils displaced by the influx of ex PSC, but they could do that anyway.
If I’m misunderstanding then I’m sorry.
Do parents who send their children to private schools not already pay taxes?
Do private school parents have a say in where there taxes are spent?
Are you suggesting that as a reward for not having to pay school fees to send their children to school where they want to send them, they should pay more taxes and have a say in where those taxes are spent?

The answer to the last question is quite simple.
The UK government can create money if it has a will.
OR
Taxes (think how much the parents would be saving).

So the government bans private schools-and anything else people see as unfair.

Private school parents might well welcome not having to pay school fees. They’d simply move their children to the ‘best’ or what would soon become ‘the best’ state schools. They wouldn’t suddenly move their children to schools in poorer areas would they?
What would happen to those schools?
What about the children who currently would go there, when their places are taken by these ex private school children?
Would they then go to ‘improve’ the next school down the list and the schools in poorer areas would still be poorer.
Where would the extra funding for schools come from if private school parents are already paying into the system through taxes as well as paying school fees?

oh dear, I meant to edit that before I posted it

I have one school aged child left (GCSE) and it is a good enough school , very white middle class, they have this new super head who is a complete cock imo wants them all the be business people, how boring
he definitely wants it to be a private school

M0nica

Why do you all have these terrible inferiority complexes about private schools. They are academically selective schools, like grammar schools, and like grammar schools produce above average results. they also have the benefit of knowing that every parent is committed to their child's education and that affects the children's attitude to education

My grandchildren are at an excellent state secondary school and had a choice of 3 similar schools. Everything I see shows that they are as good at stretching their most able pupils as any private school.

Were they able to limit thier pupils to the academically bright with committed parents, they could produce results every bit as good as any private school.

Good post.

So much negative thinking and doom and gloom. I would hate to think like thath the time. Looking through rose tinted glasses at the glirious past should be avoided.

growstuff

Doodledog Are you asking me in your last post? I agree with what you've written 100%!

No, I was addressing M0nica, who mentioned the bright children with committed parents. Other posts, including yours, crossed with mine - I type very slowly .

My children went to a very small village primary school and then on to the local comprehensive. The education was good enough to get my daughter to university and a successful career, but what I did notice was the lack of informed and articulate parents when the school held meetings to discuss future plans and policy changes. Most of those who attended seemed to think that "The school knows best and it's nothing to do with us" I realised that the parents I knew who would have questioned any new proposals had all got their children at private schools. The local vet had his children at our school as a matter of principle and would always argue for more emphasis on science subjects, but he was very much a lone voice.

MOnica: "Why do you all have these terrible inferiority complexes about private schools."

I don't have an inferiority complex about them.

"Were they able to limit thier pupils to the academically bright with committed parents, they could produce results every bit as good as any private school."

Don't assume that all private schools produce good results. Some of them are unspeakably bad, but at least children don't have to mix with the oiks.

Doodledog

I don't see how removing private schooling is very close to communism . Socialism, maybe, but there is a lot more to communism than education. Closing them would ensure that all children got a reasonably equal start, and as that would include the children of government ministers, as well as the better off in every catchment area, it would ensure that more attention was paid to 'levelling up'.

This repeated 'communism' comment is just nonsense.

Personally I would not want private schools to be closed- but state education be properly funded, so facilities and education is excellent, with smaller classes and proper support for children who need extra support. So much so that private education would lose its attraction. Why pay for private when the state sector is excellent. Same for health care.

I agree with you too Luckygirl. I think independent schools are a red herring and won't disappear any time soon. The issue is the amount of public money which is finding its way into private providers' pockets.

PS. I'd go further. Any child with committed parents and small class sizes will do relatively well. They don't have to be very bright.

Doodledog Are you asking me in your last post? I agree with what you've written 100%!

Doodledog

I don't see how removing private schooling is very close to communism . Socialism, maybe, but there is a lot more to communism than education. Closing them would ensure that all children got a reasonably equal start, and as that would include the children of government ministers, as well as the better off in every catchment area, it would ensure that more attention was paid to 'levelling up'.

Tsk tsk! Don't be silly! "Levelling up" was the last PM's catchphrase. This PM is on record as saying she's not concerned with equality, but "growing the economy" (so the already rich can benefit).

Anybody who falls for that (and isn't rich) is a mug, which is very possibly why the government doesn't want the masses to have a decent education.

Any school who could limit their intake to the academically bright with committed parents could produce good results. Equally, pretty much any child who goes to a school where the majority of pupils are bright with committed parents will do well - these are not the ones who are being short-changed by the current system.

What do you suggest should happen to children whose academic potential is not being fulfilled, either because of non-committed parents, late development, disabilities such as Dyslexia or simply because they aren't academically inclined? Should they get an inferior education, or should more resources be given to them in order to level up?

We need to increase taxation and pour more money into education so that all children get a good start, and none are written off.

DaisyAnne

It is getting very close to communism to make private schooling illegal, and I just do not see how it will bring about what those in favour suggest.

It really is a distraction from the OP which is about the real possibility of us going to the other extreme and taking away the aim and the reality of having high quality state education available for all.

That's never going to happen!

You seem a tad obsessed by communism.

What will almost certainly happen is the same as is happening in the NHS - and is already happening in schools.

Money is being siphoned off to curriculum providers and advisers (sometimes owned by the same people as academy chains, which aren't allowed to make a profit) and schools are being deprived of funds, so are having to reduce special needs support or not offer a full range of subjects. In many cases, buildings are poorly maintained and sometimes even delapidated. Class sizes are increasing, which has a knock-on effect on discipline and individual help.

Parents can see what's going on and, if they can, they will pay for their children to go to better funded independent schools. Provision in the UK is already very patchy, but we'll end up with a genuinely two tier system with state schools providing a very basic education for the "plebs" and independent schools with a richer curriculum with more opportunities, more personalised learning and a greater range of subjects on offer. Quite simply, they receive more money per pupil, so can afford all the things state schools would love to do.