Eddie Izzard

How have we even got here?

Because they are being enabled.
Just like the Emperor was until a little boy pointed out the truth.

How have we lost the insight to appreciate the only reason he insisted on going to the women's toilets in the first place was to make a point. The point that he could, because that day he identified as female (apparently) as he'd put some lipstick on and was wearing his lady clothes.

It's male privilege in plain sight. It sends a message that if men say they are female, they can do as they like and women must accommodate them. A bit like men who wear a dress and then insist lesbians sleep with them. Never mind women have consent about their own bodies anymore, it's transphobic.

How have we even got here? It's just not on

I will repeat

anyone with a penis, no matter how they dress or identify has no place in a woman’s lavatory or safe space however they choose to dress or whatever they identify as

Not rocket science, just simple common sense.

Anyone who wants to stand for parliament must be willing to represent all of their constituents. Eddie Izzard obviously disregards the feelings of some religious communities. This would not make him a good MP.
He may not himself agree with some religious conventions but an MP must be willing to take them into account when dealing with his constituents.

Meh.

I'm going to flounce again now

I might skip or possibly cartwheel off the thread if I feel like it

That's the beauty of the Internet

You still here
V
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I thought you’d flounced ?

We are discussing toilets Rosie

Yes sure do away with gender norms, brilliant love it.

Possibly without any kind of gender norms, some trans people will not find a need to be trans sure, maybe

That won't help trans people who want to change theiŕ sexual organs to align with who they are on the inside but let's just pretend it does just for a second..

We live in a utopian society with absolutely none of the gender norms perpetuated by both women and men.

Trans people have vanished somehow because the people who thought they know more about the entirety of biology, endocrinology and genes than the medical community as a whole were actually right in one instance...

It.
Still.
Won't.
Prevent.
Abusive.
Men.
Entering.
A.
Toilet.
By.
Whatever.
Means.
Available.

You flounce quite a lot now Violetsky that’s the second thread in a couple of days you ve decided to flounce off

VS
1. I find the idea that all trans people are potentially dangerous people women need protection from ridiculous and I have clearly let that be known.
???

VS you say this as if you are the only person who believes it. That isn’t true, except in your mind.

What you might understand, with careful reading even on GN, is that many believe the actions of some TIM and males in dresses is not only harmful to females, but also to all TIM and males in dresses.
What causes the concern about TIM?
Is it the distress of females who are endangered by some TIM or the actions of those TIM who do the endangering and in doing so, also harm the image of the many TIM who don’t?

2. I have always advocated for safe spaces for women who need them.
Yes but you hedge your statement by
1. using the word ‘women’ instead of females because of the corruption of the meaning of the word women, by males and some females like yourself means you can include males in that.
2. By using ‘women who need them’ you put the onus on females to complain about males in female safe spaces, instead of allowing females to have those safe spaces as a right.

I find the idea that all trans people are potentially dangerous people women need protection from ridiculous and I have clearly let that be known. Nobody, but nobody has said all transpeople are dangerous to women. What has been said ad infinitum is that some males are dangerous, and as they don't carry forehead tattoos informing us which ones are dangerous, in a few situations we need to exclude them all, and that includes transwomen who remain male.

My husband and sons are decent men, maybe that's why they wouldn't dream of seeking to breach a single sex female area. And I don't want other women's decent husbands and sons in those areas when I'm in them.

No one says all transwoman are dangerous just that they are of the same risk of offending as men because well they are men. It's also impossible to know which men are dangerous. Well unless you are Layla Moran and can see into souls

I believe everyone can be safe and everyone can access life as their own gender.
There's that meaningless word again 'gender'. The only word that can be defined is sex. Sex is immutable, it can be determined from the tiniest sample of DNA from any human. Gender is whatever anybody wants it to mean, it has no definition. If you ask advocates to define gender they can't, other than using circular arguments, or resorting to retrogressive sex stereotypes and labelling them 'genders'.

Glorianny I said that we always checked before hand Rosie51 that there were no men using the toilets and kept watch in case any came.
Wow, how lucky have you been on multiple occasions? Long queues for the ladies loos, but not a single bloke using the mens! Can't say I've ever seen other than both sets of toilets were in use. Standing in the queue witnessing a constant stream in and out of the mens always cues a moan

Lathyrus I can see after reading back that after your jokey sounding comment about golden showers, you said that you have been attacked in a toilet. I did not see that the first time. I am deeply sorry that happened to you.

For the sake of anyone who can read context. I will say that the only statements I took offence to of yours were the ones that say I was joking about rape and assault and the one saying I would now "claim that happened to me".

That is what I said was untrue and disgusting and I have explained that several times.

I can see that you have obviously read something into my comments you have found upsetting and I am sorry for that but I am telling you now that you are misreading my comments.

I do not find rape and assault funny.

I do not make "claims"

1. I find the idea that all trans people are potentially dangerous people women need protection from ridiculous and I have clearly let that be known.

2. I have always advocated for safe spaces for women who need them.

For you and others those two statements cannot both be true. I disagree. I believe we can protect everyone rights equally without discrimination. I believe everyone can be safe and everyone can access life as their own gender.

Always have, always will

Quite aside from the dangers of any old Tom Dick and Harry barging into women's toilets whenever they feel the need to don a tight mini skirt and some vertiginous heels, if Eddie Izzard insists on turning himself into a faux woman, does he really think any self respecting 60 year old female would wish to describe herself as a "girl" or worse still a "girly" a word that used to be synonymous with soft porn mags. I really think he doesn't understand women at all.

Incidentally on the wider subject of women only spaces the recent implementation of mixed changing areas in some of our leading clothing stores, have already produced a flurry of complaints such as two men barging in a a curtained off cubicle where one furious young woman was in a state of undress. Opportunists indeed! why would two men undress in one small cubicle together. Then there was a man changing into a pair of trousers, in view of others, without any under wear! Ask any man you respect such as a husband or partner whether he would be wanting to use such facilities I'm pretty sure I know most men would be as uncomfortable with such a situation as so many of us women are horrified that a prospective MP is validating potentially dangerous scenarios for women and actual "girls" that's young females who haven't reached maturity as opposed to 60 year old transvestites with flicky hair and glittery nails whose whims are dictating girl/y mode today

Glorianny or trisher, or whoever,
“Perhaps the Ladies loo had things Eddie needed that the Gents didn't, like a decent mirror to check your make up.”
So why not campaign for male toilets to have mirrors instead of using this as another pathetic excuse to use female spaces.
Oh, I know why, because that wouldn’t allow males in dresses or TIM into female spaces and that would never do for you.

I for one am not going to stop writing so what now.

How selfish of you to hog an entire block of toilets just because you didn’t want to wait. And if that man had had the aforementioned bad curry and needed a cubicle now?

Whilst it might be annoying for women that men can access easy facilities, the facilities are there so why shouldn’t they use them?

Transwomen offenders may be sent to the female estate because they would be 'unsafe' in the male estate. Well so are lots of other men.....pretty, young men are very vulnerable to rape in male prisons, should we put them in with the women too? Paedophiles are vulnerable in male prisons so should we put them in the female estate?

Absolutely not. What I think is that those in danger in a Man's prison, no matter if they are young and pretty, transgender, etc., should be protected within their own environment. I think there are safety issues which can be addressed in say, public toilets to keep women safe, and those within single sex institutions where they can't.

Lathyrus, nobody should be making light of anybody who has experienced abuse. What we should be doing is talking to abuse victims and working out how your fears can be alleviated. For example, in a lot of restaurants, there is only one toilet for each sex and possibly a disabled toilets. They are often next door to each other so just a wall between them and waiting outside would mean a mixed sex area. Is that something you would use? Is it just the structure (spaces above and below with flimsy walls) that triggers that unsafe feeling?

I feel that with the right consultation, we could move towards mixed areas with maybe one single sex toilet for born women who really feel threatened. I think, in time, many people who are worried about this subject would feel less threatened.

Otherwise, I'd stop if I were you, it's just not a good look

I also think that 'I'd stop if I were you' sounds threatening.

Yes, on its own, out of context, it sounds threatening. With the rest of the sentence, it basically says If you don't want to look bad, stop what you are writing. That is not threatening. As you are someone who is normally brilliant at accurately summarising things, DoodleDog, IMO this just seemed like something which was exaggerated.

SueDonim

And what would you have said to a man who urgently needed a lavatory, Glorianny? Told him to go the ladies?

Told him we wouldn't be two minutes and pointed out if he was a woman he'd have to join the queue and wait much longer. Now that's a real example of male privilege. Men should just walk in - women join the queue!

And what would you have said to a man who urgently needed a lavatory, Glorianny? Told him to go the ladies?

Rosie51

If Glorianny is happy to use the male toilets, and she still hasn't said why she doesn't care about any discomfort she causes males using the urinals, why couldn't Eddie just use the mens too? Why did he have to use the ladies, other than doing the 'scent marking' so many males do, and demonstrating his male privilege?
VS I'm appalled at your dismissive and quite frankly disturbing attitude towards the genuine concerns and discomforts some women have about the breaches of single sex spaces. You hadn't read the article or you'd have known the photo was taken outside the toilets in a public hall. None the less you used your error to escalate your posts to beyond ridiculous. You say you're a survivor of sexual abuse and rape, but then feel able to make jokes about The idea that just a layer or two of flimsy materiel is all that stands between me and a possible penis in a public space is just.... Well it's terrifying really My friend's daughter who was brutally raped and beaten is still uncomfortable and fearful around strange men in enclosed spaces. Eddie Izzard, like so many men in dresses, is still clearly a man. Why should she have to cope with distress because the likes of him don't give a damn about anybody else? It's almost like they get off on knowing they're causing discomfort, all part of the thrill eh? Eddie thinks he 'passes' because he says old women look like men. Nice eh?
I agree Mollygo, that post is horrible and unnecessary, but her others were escalating. It's one huge joke, amazing for someone who gets triggered so easily at other times.

I said that we always checked before hand Rosie51 that there were no men using the toilets and kept watch in case any came.

Perhaps the Ladies loo had things Eddie needed that the Gents didn't, like a decent mirror to check your make up. You simply have no idea but you are quite happy to apply your own prejudices and strange obsessions, like men "scent marking" to him. I wonder do all men do this? Are your husbands busy scent marking your houses? (ugh)

The accusations of hounding and bullying will be next, despite the fact that Lathyrus has been so badly treated and FN was accused of something she so blatantly obviously didn't do.

Some people have lost the argument, I think.