Eddie Izzard

That is a terrifying situation Lathyrus.

Until recently, only the most determined of abusive men would go into a women's toilet.
Now people like Glorianny and VioletSky are saying it's fine for any man to go in, which will include the more casually abusive men and the 'it's a laugh' men - none of whom women want to share toilets with.

However much flippancy & ridicule & non sequiturs & false equivalents & inaccuracies are produced by VioletSky and Glorianny on this thread, anyone reading it can understand the facts of the matter.

Galaxy

Nothing to do with transpeople. Men. No men. All men. Not targeted. Treated the same as any other man.

Exactly!

VioletSky

Lathyrus

I reported you for the reasons I stated.

That you were not being honest and accusing me of making jokes about what I would never joke about.

Also stating that I would probably claim having been a victim in some way was pretty awful.

I'm sorry you don't like it but I am always honest and will say when someone is being unfair or untrue about me as a person.

I will flounce now as its become too dark and personal for me. I value my happiness.

I’m reporting this post too because yet again you are accusing me of telling lies about my experience of assault in a public toilet. In addition to responding to my first post about my experience as “the best joke”

It was frightening and traumatic. Only a sheet of plywood separated me from the perpetrator with a gap at the top that he could have looked or possibly climbed over.

I didn’t know whether to stay in the cubicle or try to run, I was terrified that if he didn’t succeed in achieving climax by himself he would use me.

In your own words Stating that I would falsely claim to have been a victimless s pretty awful. But that is what you have done twice on this thread.

Just remembering and typing it in is making my heart pound but I won’t be silenced by you. Not until you report me that is.

Why should it always be women who have to 'be kind', regardless of the risks to their safety?

This, the 'be kind' put everyone else first, especially if they're male
.
Transwomen offenders may be sent to the female estate because they would be 'unsafe' in the male estate. Well so are lots of other men.....pretty, young men are very vulnerable to rape in male prisons, should we put them in with the women too? Paedophiles are vulnerable in male prisons so should we put them in the female estate? Oh yes we already do if they are now transwomen.
Of course the fact these people may be a danger to the women incarcerated with them is just waved away.
Women's rights were hard won, now they are being surrendered at an unprecedented rate. And what is absolutely sickening is the women happy to give away other women's rights, while preening themselves on how inclusive and kind they are. It started with language, progresses onto spaces and sports, awards etc Will it only end when we've been completely subjugated to men once again?

VioletSky

Lathyrus

I reported you for the reasons I stated.

That you were not being honest and accusing me of making jokes about what I would never joke about.

Also stating that I would probably claim having been a victim in some way was pretty awful.

I'm sorry you don't like it but I am always honest and will say when someone is being unfair or untrue about me as a person.

I will flounce now as its become too dark and personal for me. I value my happiness.

Please remember this the next time you say that you never report people? It happens every time, as does the flounce, with the implication that people are impacting on your MH, despite your utter disregard for the MH of anyone else who is upset by you making jokes about abusive behaviour and the mockery of those who are concerned about it.

Abuse needs to be fought on many fronts because I honestly cannot say what was worse, the abuse done by men or the sinister subtle, mental health destroying abuse from women.

I'm trying not to explode here, in case this is badly written rather than unspeakably insulting.

Are you saying that only women carry out 'subtle, mental health destroying abuse'? If you really believe that, you have no idea about the lives of many women who have suffered exactly that at the hands of men. Of course psychological abusers are of both sexes, and I would love to see proper research (please not from articles in pop-psychology magazines or websites) that suggests otherwise.

Rape, by definition, is carried out by men. Not all men, and not usually by transmen, but rape happens often enough to make 'safe' spaces for women a necessity. We can't ban only rapists, so the only way to ensure women's safety is to ban all men. Like it or not, transwomen are men, so they have to be banned too. Rather than have women 'deal with it', why shouldn't having transwomen in male loos become normalised? Why should it always be women who have to 'be kind', regardless of the risks to their safety?

If Glorianny is happy to use the male toilets, and she still hasn't said why she doesn't care about any discomfort she causes males using the urinals, why couldn't Eddie just use the mens too? Why did he have to use the ladies, other than doing the 'scent marking' so many males do, and demonstrating his male privilege?
VS I'm appalled at your dismissive and quite frankly disturbing attitude towards the genuine concerns and discomforts some women have about the breaches of single sex spaces. You hadn't read the article or you'd have known the photo was taken outside the toilets in a public hall. None the less you used your error to escalate your posts to beyond ridiculous. You say you're a survivor of sexual abuse and rape, but then feel able to make jokes about The idea that just a layer or two of flimsy materiel is all that stands between me and a possible penis in a public space is just.... Well it's terrifying really My friend's daughter who was brutally raped and beaten is still uncomfortable and fearful around strange men in enclosed spaces. Eddie Izzard, like so many men in dresses, is still clearly a man. Why should she have to cope with distress because the likes of him don't give a damn about anybody else? It's almost like they get off on knowing they're causing discomfort, all part of the thrill eh? Eddie thinks he 'passes' because he says old women look like men. Nice eh?
I agree Mollygo, that post is horrible and unnecessary, but her others were escalating. It's one huge joke, amazing for someone who gets triggered so easily at other times.

We can protect womens spaces it's very doable, by letting men in them presumably.

Lathyrus

I reported you for the reasons I stated.

That you were not being honest and accusing me of making jokes about what I would never joke about.

Also stating that I would probably claim having been a victim in some way was pretty awful.

I'm sorry you don't like it but I am always honest and will say when someone is being unfair or untrue about me as a person.

I will flounce now as its become too dark and personal for me. I value my happiness.

Message deleted as it quotes a deleted post.

icanhandthemback

I don't see a "threat" in the post by VioletSky on Sun 02-Oct-22 at 12:22:50.

In our area we have public toilets that are unisex. They are sturdily built, have their own sinks and open up directly on to the car park. If anyone has had a wank there whilst I've been weeing, I am none the wiser. All our disabled toilets are unisex and if you have to use the toilet at a Garage, they often are too.

I think there is a way to have a unisex toilet but as someone who suffers from IBS where accidents happen, I don't want to be cleaning up in full view of a single sex group or unisex area.

I get the Safe Space for women, I really do. I am also a sexual abuse survivor but if I didn't believe that the majority of men don't want to threaten, abuse or hurt me, I'd go mad. Once I walk into a sturdy cubicle with no viewing holes, I have my safe space.

I really think there is a way forward for women to feel safe, transgender people (who are equally unsafe in a man's toilet) to feel safe and for us all to be protected when it comes to toilets. In other spaces, like Women's Shelters, I feel totally differently.

Completely rational and reasonable

We can protect women, keep safe spaces and protect trans people. It's all very doable.

And doing so for a minority group is a sign of an enlightened and accepting society.

We do not have to sacrifice anyone's rights or needs in order to have ours met. Doing so would not be a kind of feminism I would want to be involved in.

Abusive men is a very seperate issue and I would hope we all do what we can to fight abuse.

Abuse needs to be fought on many fronts because I honestly cannot say what was worse, the abuse done by men or the sinister subtle, mental health destroying abuse from women.

Galaxy

Nothing to do with transpeople. Men. No men. All men. Not targeted. Treated the same as any other man.

Yup.

Glorianny

Funny that Dragging in the King is such a crime.No mention of the paedophiles dragged in to try and discredit Izzard? I suppose that's OK?
(Mind the King has far more close contacts with paedophiles than Izzard)

No, it's not a crime - just irrelevant.

And for the hundredth time, nobody tried to discredit Izzard. Nobody. If you can't see the difference between saying that if men are allowed into female facilities then that would have included Harris and Saville, and 'discrediting' Izzard then I have to conclude that you don't understand English.

Message deleted as it quotes a deleted post.

Funny that Dragging in the King is such a crime.No mention of the paedophiles dragged in to try and discredit Izzard? I suppose that's OK?
(Mind the King has far more close contacts with paedophiles than Izzard)

I don't see a "threat" in the post by VioletSky on Sun 02-Oct-22 at 12:22:50.

In our area we have public toilets that are unisex. They are sturdily built, have their own sinks and open up directly on to the car park. If anyone has had a wank there whilst I've been weeing, I am none the wiser. All our disabled toilets are unisex and if you have to use the toilet at a Garage, they often are too.

I think there is a way to have a unisex toilet but as someone who suffers from IBS where accidents happen, I don't want to be cleaning up in full view of a single sex group or unisex area.

I get the Safe Space for women, I really do. I am also a sexual abuse survivor but if I didn't believe that the majority of men don't want to threaten, abuse or hurt me, I'd go mad. Once I walk into a sturdy cubicle with no viewing holes, I have my safe space.

I really think there is a way forward for women to feel safe, transgender people (who are equally unsafe in a man's toilet) to feel safe and for us all to be protected when it comes to toilets. In other spaces, like Women's Shelters, I feel totally differently.

Nothing to do with transpeople. Men. No men. All men. Not targeted. Treated the same as any other man.

No one is making light of abuse . We are mildly amused by your concept that banning transpeople from using their loo of choice is something that will improve women's safety. In fact I think it is downright irresponsible to say to any woman or girl that the sign on the door will provide them with any protection from a predatory male. The place the loo is in, the amount of usage and the time of day are all better indicators of when there may be danger.
Pretending that you care more than others about women's safety may make you feel better, just as targeting transpeople might, but really? Doesn't the fact that you need to do such things ever worry you?

VS
The only thing that worries me is whether I conform to vagina standards of beauty.

I've had 5 children and the woman doing my smear once told me that I could "have that put back together if I wanted too"

No man has ever judged my vagina so perhaps someone of the male persuasion would be better?
This post is truly sick, nothing to do with saddo Izzard, and rather narcissistic IMO, but then . . .

One thing that this thread has exposed is the paucity of valid arguments against the objections to men having free access to women's spaces.

When the frankly idiotic ones about Izzard failed, the next stage is to belittle women with 'hilarious' suggestions that our concerns are over-reactions.

All of this to excuse an over-privileged man who was prepared to make the women in his audience wait while he used the wrong loo. Talk about internalised patriarchy!

And we are not going to centre the feelings of men in that discussion.
Which rule of misogyny is it again?
The worst thing about Male violence is that it makes men look bad.

We are going to keep talking about Male violence.

Seriously?

VS, are you threatening *Lathyrus for pulling you up on your belittling the concerns of those of us who are not happy about men being allowed in female spaces by accusing her of point-scoring?

When you look at the feeble efforts of the trans-rights supporters on this thread to excuse Izzard's arrogant behaviour there is absolutely no room for accusations of point-scoring! Dragging in the King, and making childish 'sausage' jokes may not score points for rational argument, but they are most definitely attempts to 'get one over' on those who value women's rights.

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

FarNorth

VS the pic was NOT taken in the toilet but outside it, when he was in full view of around 300 people.

Don't let little details like what actually happened get in the way of farcical 'humour' about sausages and genital prosthetics ?.