Eddie Izzard

VS trans women think they are women. However if they have male genitalia they are not. I’m genuinely sorry for the struggles people have stuck in the wrong body, but unless they have major surgery and chemicals, that’s how they will stay. Be kind to everyone, they cant help how they feel. No wonder how much you self identify you can’t fight nature, if it pleases tgem to dress as women, but use the male Loo.

I'm not a TRA Rosie, no matter how many times I get called one but, just wondering why you equate being one to racists and if you think I am racist?

Because we really don't need any more confusion on this thread and I'm a big fan of sayingbwhat you actually mean instead of implying gross things

Yes, it’s Orwellian too.

“Repeat a lie often enough and it becomes the truth”, is a law of propaganda often attributed to the Nazi Joseph Goebbels now whether the attribution is correct or not, it's certainly the method employed in hope by the TRAs. Donald Trump was an advocate of this method too.

MargotLedbetter

Try a man's take on Eddie's behaviour:

www.spiked-online.com/2022/10/02/eddie-izzard-was-born-male-and-he-will-die-male/

Good article.

Female privacy, biological truth, even the sense of safety of girls – all now play a very distant second fiddle to the right of men to say ‘I’m a lady’ and to be treated as such. Mr Izzard’s right to feel like a woman takes precedence over real women’s right to live freely and privately. This is the trans ideology summed up – everything, the entire physical, social and scientific world, must be sacrificed to the therapeutic needs of men who think they’re women. Sure, drunk blokes of old knew a woman’s bathroom was a no-go zone – but today’s blokes drunk on their own narcissistic and lunatic vision of themselves as ‘women’ recognise no such physical boundaries

VioletSky

Transwomen are women, the clue is in the name

Okay, VS, I'll bite.

Define woman. Define trans woman. Explain why the two are the same.

Rosie51

Now I prefer transwomen because that's a noun, if you use trans women (which is what TRAs prefer) then trans becomes an adjective to describe the women. I totally reject the concept that transwomen are just another kind of woman.

Me too, Rosie. I always use 'transwomen', for the same reason.

As for 'the clue is in the name' - that makes no sense. Names follow concepts, not the other way round. And even if that were not the case, simply saying something is the case won't make it so.

Yes Fanny there are those lovely racist TRAs who have actually tweeted that if black women are women then so are transwomen. The absolute blockheaded stupidity of their racism never ceases to astound and disgust me.

VioletSky

FannyCornforth

VS if you are if the TWAW persuasion, which I understand that you are; the correct terminology is trans women, and not transwomen

Cool, thanks

Trans women are women

Nope they have XY chromosomes which are MALE

Women have XX chromosomes

Yes, Rosie, that’s my point exactly
The intersectionalists will argue that ‘trans women’ is as valid and truthful a phrase as ‘tall women’, ‘black women’ or, of course, ‘cis women’

FannyCornforth

VS if you are if the TWAW persuasion, which I understand that you are; the correct terminology is trans women, and not transwomen

Cool, thanks

Trans women are women

Now I prefer transwomen because that's a noun, if you use trans women (which is what TRAs prefer) then trans becomes an adjective to describe the women. I totally reject the concept that transwomen are just another kind of woman.

VS if you are if the TWAW persuasion, which I understand that you are; the correct terminology is trans women, and not transwomen

Transwomen is a different noun to women with a totally different meaning. Transwomen are male, women are female.

VioletSky

Transwomen are women, the clue is in the name

Until such time that science and medicine can alter a persons chromosomes a trans woman can never be a woman they remain a trans woman and have all the medical problems associated with being male not female.

Unless you know better than the medical profession of course VioletSky ?

Transwomen are women, the clue is in the name

MargotLedbetter and Mollygo good and sensible posts which I totally agree with ???

MargotLedbetter
I have been saying that about the trans who were leading a quiet life for a long time. Their anonymity -apart from probably family and close friends allowed them to be the way they felt, without being coerced into chemical or physical surgery.
The TIM and their supporters who have caused such an upheaval by claiming entitlement to the hard-won rights of females damage not only females but those who are the same sex as TIM remain.
The antics of men like IE, who think that the right to dress as they please gives them the right to invade female spaces compound the problems.

Yes. The reasonable transpeople are having their lives ruined by the extreme trans activists who will settle for nothing short of total capitulation from all women. They want us to lie about reality and bow to our erasure — because if anyone can be a woman, then what is a woman?

I feel sad for the 'old-fashioned' transpeople who were leading quiet lives before this blew up. People like Miranda Yardley are called 'scum' by other trans people because they do not pretend to have changed sex. It's tragic.

SueDonim

Glorianny said Perhaps admitting that by using the women's toilet openly and carefully Eddie did no one any harm at all is too much of a step.

Admitting that EI using the women’s toilets did no harm would be admitting a lie. It did do harm. It harmed women by making those facilities unavailable to any women who cared to not share them with a man, even if it was just for a shirt amount of time.

His action signals that women are inferior and can be put in second place and it signals that he thinks of himself far more than he thinks of anyone else.

As for Jan Morris, in ‘her’ memoir, she said openly and plainly that she knew she was not a woman, despite surgery.

Agreed, SD. That is the attitude that underpins so much of this situation.

Women need to know our place, which is to stand back and let the men in - whether it is toilets, changing rooms, prisons, sports teams, hospitals or whatever - and if we speak up we are laughed at, dismissed with childish jokes, heckled or worse.

icanhandthemback

^If we had men and women and transmen and transwomen, with equal treatment for all, would that be so bad?^

Doodledog, I wholeheartedly agree. I have never accepted you can change biological sex no matter how much you want to but I know I would want to be sympathetically treated no matter what I "identified" as. It horrifies me that people are abused for the way they choose to dress and they lifestyle they want to lead where it doesn't hurt anyone else. I certainly want to stick up for my rights as a woman but it doesn't mean I can't see modifications that could be made to protect us all as far as that can be achieved. .

I think it is the over-reachers who have got us where we are. If, instead of insisting that TWAW they had accepted that no, they are transwomen (and the same for transmen), we could be a lot further along the road to full acceptance. As it is, expecting people to agree to believe the impossible, and expecting women to move over so that men can beat us at sport and take our places in hard-won spaces isn't going to work, but Stonewall and its followers get ever more entrenched, and make getting there more difficult.

Glorianny said Perhaps admitting that by using the women's toilet openly and carefully Eddie did no one any harm at all is too much of a step.

Admitting that EI using the women’s toilets did no harm would be admitting a lie. It did do harm. It harmed women by making those facilities unavailable to any women who cared to not share them with a man, even if it was just for a shirt amount of time.

His action signals that women are inferior and can be put in second place and it signals that he thinks of himself far more than he thinks of anyone else.

As for Jan Morris, in ‘her’ memoir, she said openly and plainly that she knew she was not a woman, despite surgery.

Margot-sorry for the confusion. I was trying to keep my post shorter so I could have expressed that bit better. Of course no one can change sex.

There is a long running support thread/s for trans widows on MN

One of the first people to openly discuss their trans status was Jan Morris, writer and broadcaster, she had children and was married.

It doesn't have to be porn, but porn explains the explosion in autogynephilia we're seeing now. I know several people who live in Wales and knew Jan Morris and his wife and family well. My family is Welsh and from that area. Jan managed to somehow create an idyllic picture of his life that people willingly swallowed. The reality was far more troubling and sordid and I have no doubt will come out at some point.

For those interested in the trans-widow experience I recommend this site:
www.transwidowsvoices.org