Eddie Izzard

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As we're not transphobic, it's all fine.

Women's Rally at Scottish Parliament today was excellent .

toscalily

If you do a search * GrannyMack246* only comes up on this thread, I wonder who????????

I hope that it wasn’t someone looking for evidence that MN / GN is transphobic. I wouldn’t be surprised if it was though.
This used to happen a lot over there, and then they’d repeat stuff on Twitter.
It caused a shed load of trouble.

Drop it in, stir the pot and watch it bubble.

Someone who doesn't fancy getting tarred & feathered by some others, I'd guess.

If you do a search * GrannyMack246* only comes up on this thread, I wonder who????????

Changing things for the few is fine if it doesn't involve obliterating others' important rights.
E.g. adaptations to improve life for people with disabilities don't disadvantage anyone else.

Oh goodness, I hadn't even noticed that........

Anyway. . . .

What do you think, GrannyMack246? You've been very quiet for 21 pages.

Allsorts
Why should the majority change things for the few, when will it end? It’s a fact, no one gets everything they want. Just be nice people, don’t expect special treatment.
Not quite sure which way you are meaning Allsorts.

Allsorts

Why should the majority change things for the few, when will it end? It’s a fact, no one gets everything they want. Just be nice people, don’t expect special treatment.

Yes, and don’t then complain that you are the most marginalised group in society when you’ve managed to get everyone dancing to your tune.

Why should the majority change things for the few, when will it end? It’s a fact, no one gets everything they want. Just be nice people, don’t expect special treatment.

Terribull Primark have confirmed the women only area welcomes anyone who 'identifies' as a woman, so still mixed sex. The men aren't given a dedicated area that will be gender neutral, so they could be sharing with women who decide to use that area.

Mollygo

*As Brendan O'Neill says, decent men don't invade women's private space. It's only the dodgy disrespectful ones who do.*

And it’s because of the dodgy, disrespectful men that we need female safe spaces. Several posters have said that you can’t police it. It’s true, but if there was sufficiently strong punishment for those dodgy disrespectful males who make it quite obvious that they are are male, instead of allowing the TIM or daddies like IE the “I’m a woman” travesty of an excuse, it would be a start.

With that in mind, I've read that Primark have decided to go back to women only changing areas apropos of several incidents where men have barged in on women, and those women didn't regard the invasion of their privacy as accidents. Brendan O'Neil is right imo, decent men would not want a mixed changing area anymore than most women do. Opportunists will always take advantage of a flawed set up.

Glorianny

Ah so the GRA is a "bad law". No transphobia on GN of course.

Who has said 'Oh, it's just men', or anything approximating it?

And I'm still not clear why it should be my responsibility to come up with a way for transwomen to do exactly as they choose wherever they choose to do it. You are right that it is complicated, and that there are numerous interested parties, but women should be able to use women's facilities without men being in there (loos, changing rooms, prisons, whatever), and it should be the people who want to change that who come up with a way of making it acceptable to all, not the people who are being asked told to shove over and shut up.

Baggs I love you to bits; but that’s a cracking (and long winded) bit of mansplaining

Haven't read the thread.

This is an interesting, and in my view good, Twitter thread on gender identity: twitter.com/davidspiersiii/status/1577263743234641920?s=21&t=qY9e6lJ6x_YMCBatr2VeVA

Ah so the GRA is a "bad law". No transphobia on GN of course.

Regardless of sex or gender if you advocate a change in the law you should be aware of what will or could happen as a result of that legislation. And yours (as I have said many times) will not just impact on men. It will affect any woman who enters a public toilet.
I am not advocating a change in the law. I am advocating a return to having single sex spaces which are respected by those of the opposite sex.

*This "Oh it's just men" is not only untrue it's ridiculous.
Discrimination often sets out claiming it will only affect a few, unfortunately it never stoops there. Once you begin judging it tends to escalate, and only those who absolutely conform to set restrictions are not discriminated against.*
And who has said 'Oh, it's just men'? Not me, and not anyone else, as far as I can remember. That seems to be in your head alone, I'm afraid.

Yes, Rosie, bad laws don't have to stay on the books.

There is of course an easy answer, repeal the GRA. Bad laws have been repealed before.

Glorianny If you advocate a change in the law the very least you should do before doing so is research how it will work, and the side effects which might result. Oh yes if only the MPs had put their brains into gear before passing the GRA that would only affect a ' few hundred' people who could then enter into marriage with someone of the same sex, but it would be disguised as a heterosexual one......... If they'd simply OK'd same sex marriage we might not be in the LaLa land we're occupying now.

Discrimination often sets out claiming it will only affect a few, unfortunately it never stoops there.

Exactly!
Discrimination against females by trans and fans (TAF) started off affecting only a small number of females but the discrimination against females by TAF has spread across sport, swimming pools, changing rooms, refuges, hospitals, toilets etc.
In addition, the actions of some TAF has caused discrimination against harmless TIM.

Doodledog

That has not answered the question, but you have taken another opportunity to bang your drum.

I will repeat - why am I 'irresponsible' for not coming up with a way to allow men to do what they like? Why does it come down to women to do that, or to say nothing while their privacy, dignity and safety are compromised? Why don't men deal with it, as transwomen are male? If the law can't cope with the difficulties of having men in women's spaces, why allow it at all? Cut the nuances and, until someone does find a solution Just Say No.

Regardless of sex or gender if you advocate a change in the law you should be aware of what will or could happen as a result of that legislation. And yours (as I have said many times) will not just impact on men. It will affect any woman who enters a public toilet.

This "Oh it's just men" is not only untrue it's ridiculous.
Discrimination often sets out claiming it will only affect a few, unfortunately it never stoops there. Once you begin judging it tends to escalate, and only those who absolutely conform to set restrictions are not discriminated against.

trisher, this is really a typical transfan answer!
So in your opinion women are to blame for wanting single sex toilets!
If women are to be allowed to dress and present as they wish some women will suffer if access to toilets is regulated by appearance

What do you say about someone intent on causing harm is true, but if you were told that acting in a certain way would definitely get you arrested, would you still do that?
Oh well yes I suppose you would.

Do you think it’s right that if someone challenged you for your behaviour, you could get away with it by simply pretending to be a different sex, and demanding that the victims use the pronouns you prefer or find themselves in more trouble than you?

Evidently you do.

Your explanation is just your justification for saying that TIM (trans-identified-males) have rights that override those of females.
Oh dear, I’ve just realised I put trisher instead of Glorianny.
Never mind, calling someone by an incorrect name e.g. calling males ‘women’ is OK with you.

That has not answered the question, but you have taken another opportunity to bang your drum.

I will repeat - why am I 'irresponsible' for not coming up with a way to allow men to do what they like? Why does it come down to women to do that, or to say nothing while their privacy, dignity and safety are compromised? Why don't men deal with it, as transwomen are male? If the law can't cope with the difficulties of having men in women's spaces, why allow it at all? Cut the nuances and, until someone does find a solution Just Say No.

I think I've explained it many times and I think most people accept it. But I will do it again (but is the last time) for the benefit of those who perpetually post the same things pretending they have legitimate ideas which will work but which apparently they have no responsibility for. It's also as usual an attempt to question my commitment to women.
So here goes.
It is already illegal for a man to assault a woman this doesn't stop it happening. If a man is intent on assault he is unlikely to take any notice of a law banning him from entering a toilet.
If women are to be allowed to dress and present as they wish some women will suffer if access to toilets is regulated by appearance and there is no other way of applying such a law.
The false sense of security which saying something is illegal might create, will be dangerous for women, because there will still be some times and places when women will need to take care using a toilet

If you advocate a change in the law the very least you should do before doing so is research how it will work, and the side effects which might result.