£18bn cuts to public services

People like this in Manchester paid high prices for their bread as a result of high tariffs on cheaper grain from the US and elsewhere - but at least they ate British grain and British farmers made nice profits.

Only governments can provide the kind of targeted infrastructure investment which is needed to enable growth.

We are not going to compete with cheap labour but we can compete with technology, if we invest, much of the stuff we import is made by robots. A few years ago we toured a new Mercedes factory in Germany, there were very few workers, just robots doing all the repetitive work, they were German robots too, our factories are way behind.
The new technologies for renewable are all foreign, we missed that boat too, we really have to take manufacturing seriously.

growstuff

Unless UK wages were kept low (to the same levels as those in countries with a lower cost of living) prices would have to be higher, which would cause inflation.

Didn't you do 19th century history at school?

You said it better than me, growstuff

I don't think the 19th century history taught in school necessarily drove home the utter awfulness of 19th C workers' lives. Or the similarity between the thinking of 19th C 'liberals' and our modern equivalents.

The salient point, for me, of 19th C history is that throughout the period there was a steady stream of people striving to improve people's lives, even though progress seemed glacially slow. The 21st C seems to be characterised by a rush to undo all their work.

Katie59

growstuff

Katie59

Economic competence has not been high on polititians achievements for many years and certainly not now. Don’t blame the wealthy we all spend money abroad, the import/export gap is very large everyone is guilty.

If we didn't buy goods which could be produced more efficiently and cheaply abroad, we'd be worse off.

They could be produced efficiently in the UK there just is not enough incentive for companies to invest, we have fallen well behind in manufacturing and technology.
Who is to blame, short term government decision making, poor investment and weak management.

I'm sure that if Truss is allowed to realise the Tufton St wet dreams and do away with all workers' rights and work related regulation we could once again replicate the reason that manufacturers outsource their work to overseas countries where pay and conditions are nowhere near as good as the UK's. I'm sure companies will be delighted to repatriate their manufacturing. ?

I was a manager in a hi-tech manufacturing company.

I don't think the huge financial crisis is my fault.

You never know of course. ?

Unless UK wages were kept low (to the same levels as those in countries with a lower cost of living) prices would have to be higher, which would cause inflation.

Didn't you do 19th century history at school?

Don't be silly! It's not just about investment. It's about wages, geography, climate, etc etc.

How could investing in growing rice in the UK work?

growstuff

Katie59

Economic competence has not been high on polititians achievements for many years and certainly not now. Don’t blame the wealthy we all spend money abroad, the import/export gap is very large everyone is guilty.

If we didn't buy goods which could be produced more efficiently and cheaply abroad, we'd be worse off.

They could be produced efficiently in the UK there just is not enough incentive for companies to invest, we have fallen well behind in manufacturing and technology.
Who is to blame, short term government decision making, poor investment and weak management.

Watch as many of these ideas are introduced:

www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/oct/06/revealed-rightwing-slash-and-burn-ideas-that-could-be-blueprint-for-truss

The signs are already there. I don't have the energy to go through them all one by one at the moment, but the consequences would be catastrophic for the majority of people.

That's interesting Richmond, thank you. I did wonder if our recent events had sparked the comment, but it seems more likely it was a long-held view of hers.

RichmondPark1

The quote is from September 2019, but the sentiment is timeless I believe.

I agree! It really doesn't matter when she said it or even who said it.

The quote is from September 2019, but the sentiment is timeless I believe.

DaisyAnne

Good. I am glad you realise your comment was stupid - although I wouldn't have gone that far.

What reply did you expect? I still find it totally odd.

It wasn't Casdon's comment which was stupid (or insulting).

Katie59

Economic competence has not been high on polititians achievements for many years and certainly not now. Don’t blame the wealthy we all spend money abroad, the import/export gap is very large everyone is guilty.

If we didn't buy goods which could be produced more efficiently and cheaply abroad, we'd be worse off.

Katie59

It doesn’t really matter wether spending precedes taxation, the money goes round in circles. If at he end of the year taxation has not equaled spending plus repayments more has to be borrowed to fill the gap. The UK has not reduced it borrowing for 20 yrs and I don’t expect Truss to achieve a reduction in 2 yrs.

The proceeds of taxation or spending does get distributed to the majority, that does not mean that everyone gets all they need.

That's not true. Spending doesn't need to be balanced at the end of an accounting period. Interest needs to be paid and that, in theory, is all. Debts can often be reduced by inflation, as anybody who took out a mortgage in the 60s has experienced.

DaisyAnne

Good. I am glad you realise your comment was stupid - although I wouldn't have gone that far.

What reply did you expect? I still find it totally odd.

Good. I am glad you realise your comment was stupid - although I wouldn't have gone that far.

What reply did you expect? I still find it totally odd.

DaisyAnne

Totally odd. What has me asking a question of someone else got to do with you? It was obviously relevant to me, or I wouldn't have asked it.

Why have we suddenly got people who want to dictate how we think and what posts we make, for heaven's sake?

I’m not going to dignify such a stupid comment by responding.

Totally odd. What has me asking a question of someone else got to do with you? It was obviously relevant to me, or I wouldn't have asked it.

Why have we suddenly got people who want to dictate how we think and what posts we make, for heaven's sake?

DaisyAnne

RichmondPark1

"Economic growth accompanied by worsening social outcomes is not success. It's failure." Jacinta Ardern.

Is that a recent quote Richmond?

I don’t understand why it’s relevant when it was said, I’m sure she hasn’t changed her mind since?

RichmondPark1

"Economic growth accompanied by worsening social outcomes is not success. It's failure." Jacinta Ardern.

Is that a recent quote Richmond?

The most disastrous thing about the UK's covid spending wasn't the money, which isn't a debt, because that is just accounting fiction, it was the way it was spent. £billions fraudulently claimed and not recovered, £billions spent on Track and Trace, including the development of a useless 'app' and £1,000s a day on 'consultants, goodness knows how much on contracts with tory cronies for useless PPE by way of the VIP lane, and 'Nightingale hospitals unused because there was no-one to staff them. In a word, government incompetence and corruption.

New Zealand, let us remember, hadn't cut its ties to its biggest and nearest trading partner and market with a resultant annual loss of 4% of GDP...

Nor did they elect a corrupt, idle, money grabbing charlatan for PM...

What you say is not relevant to the point she is making Katie59

New Zealand has got a much stronger economy and lower borrowings so she can well afford more spending. They also did not have the disastrous Covid spending that we had, the big downside is that about half their trade is with China, a recession there would hurt.