£18bn cuts to public services

The quote is from September 2019, but the sentiment is timeless I believe.

RichmondPark1

The quote is from September 2019, but the sentiment is timeless I believe.

I agree! It really doesn't matter when she said it or even who said it.

That's interesting Richmond, thank you. I did wonder if our recent events had sparked the comment, but it seems more likely it was a long-held view of hers.

Watch as many of these ideas are introduced:

www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/oct/06/revealed-rightwing-slash-and-burn-ideas-that-could-be-blueprint-for-truss

The signs are already there. I don't have the energy to go through them all one by one at the moment, but the consequences would be catastrophic for the majority of people.

growstuff

Katie59

Economic competence has not been high on polititians achievements for many years and certainly not now. Don’t blame the wealthy we all spend money abroad, the import/export gap is very large everyone is guilty.

If we didn't buy goods which could be produced more efficiently and cheaply abroad, we'd be worse off.

They could be produced efficiently in the UK there just is not enough incentive for companies to invest, we have fallen well behind in manufacturing and technology.
Who is to blame, short term government decision making, poor investment and weak management.

Don't be silly! It's not just about investment. It's about wages, geography, climate, etc etc.

How could investing in growing rice in the UK work?

Unless UK wages were kept low (to the same levels as those in countries with a lower cost of living) prices would have to be higher, which would cause inflation.

Didn't you do 19th century history at school?

I was a manager in a hi-tech manufacturing company.

I don't think the huge financial crisis is my fault.

You never know of course. ?

Katie59

growstuff

Katie59

Economic competence has not been high on polititians achievements for many years and certainly not now. Don’t blame the wealthy we all spend money abroad, the import/export gap is very large everyone is guilty.

If we didn't buy goods which could be produced more efficiently and cheaply abroad, we'd be worse off.

They could be produced efficiently in the UK there just is not enough incentive for companies to invest, we have fallen well behind in manufacturing and technology.
Who is to blame, short term government decision making, poor investment and weak management.

I'm sure that if Truss is allowed to realise the Tufton St wet dreams and do away with all workers' rights and work related regulation we could once again replicate the reason that manufacturers outsource their work to overseas countries where pay and conditions are nowhere near as good as the UK's. I'm sure companies will be delighted to repatriate their manufacturing. ?

growstuff

Unless UK wages were kept low (to the same levels as those in countries with a lower cost of living) prices would have to be higher, which would cause inflation.

Didn't you do 19th century history at school?

You said it better than me, growstuff

I don't think the 19th century history taught in school necessarily drove home the utter awfulness of 19th C workers' lives. Or the similarity between the thinking of 19th C 'liberals' and our modern equivalents.

The salient point, for me, of 19th C history is that throughout the period there was a steady stream of people striving to improve people's lives, even though progress seemed glacially slow. The 21st C seems to be characterised by a rush to undo all their work.

We are not going to compete with cheap labour but we can compete with technology, if we invest, much of the stuff we import is made by robots. A few years ago we toured a new Mercedes factory in Germany, there were very few workers, just robots doing all the repetitive work, they were German robots too, our factories are way behind.
The new technologies for renewable are all foreign, we missed that boat too, we really have to take manufacturing seriously.

People like this in Manchester paid high prices for their bread as a result of high tariffs on cheaper grain from the US and elsewhere - but at least they ate British grain and British farmers made nice profits.

Only governments can provide the kind of targeted infrastructure investment which is needed to enable growth.

Only governments can provide the kind of targeted infrastructure investment which is needed to enable growth.

It needs saying again and again only government can provide the needed investment.

But they won't, because cutting government spending is going to grow the economy.

And no foreign company with any financial nous is going to invest in the UK's economy with a declining domestic market and trade barriers with the UK's nearest big market.

The days of the likes of Nissan revitalising deprived areas are long gone...

And how many well-paid jobs will robots provide?

It's a pipe-dream to think that there will be massive private investment in that kind of technology in the UK.

In Germany, the government works very closely with businesses, so that companies like Mercedes and VW have the transport infrastructure and training they need to flourish. They don't just leave it to a handful of random hedge fund managers and hope they will invest in something useful.

Time for my picture again, I think

Katie59

We are not going to compete with cheap labour but we can compete with technology, if we invest, much of the stuff we import is made by robots. A few years ago we toured a new Mercedes factory in Germany, there were very few workers, just robots doing all the repetitive work, they were German robots too, our factories are way behind.
The new technologies for renewable are all foreign, we missed that boat too, we really have to take manufacturing seriously.

The last manufacturing plant I worked just as COVID hit has closed down and the capacity moved to another country. Not, you will be amazed to learn, a country with lower wages, but one in the EU. Because the ease of exporting from within the EU to other countries far outweighs the extra salary costs.

The first plant I worked in had robots to do the repetitive stuff. 35 years ago.

Nothing's ever as straightforward as we think it is.

growstuff

Don't be silly! It's not just about investment. It's about wages, geography, climate, etc etc.

How could investing in growing rice in the UK work?

Were you always this rude? I hadn't noticed it before. I ask a totally innocuous question and you attack me personally. Others give a reasoned opinion, and you use personal attack as your argument yet again.

Gransnet is getting very unpleasant at times. I understand strong argument, but people seem to think they have a right to be right at the moment. No doubt it will pass.

growstuff

And how many well-paid jobs will robots provide?

It's a pipe-dream to think that there will be massive private investment in that kind of technology in the UK.

In Germany, the government works very closely with businesses, so that companies like Mercedes and VW have the transport infrastructure and training they need to flourish. They don't just leave it to a handful of random hedge fund managers and hope they will invest in something useful.

We don’t have surplus labour, we want better paid skilled jobs for those we have, producing goods we can export as well as use in the UK

Germany does it, we have allowed ourselves to fall behind.

Truss has announced “enterprise zones” in the UK so that specific help can be given to technology and business, this sort of initiative can only be good. If it does not bear fruit we can look forward to a slowly declining UK economy.

Her problem now is that she destroyed her credibility by announcing a Mini Budget, then had to back down on several parts.

Katie59

Truss has announced “enterprise zones” in the UK so that specific help can be given to technology and business, this sort of initiative can only be good. If it does not bear fruit we can look forward to a slowly declining UK economy.

Her problem now is that she destroyed her credibility by announcing a Mini Budget, then had to back down on several parts.

And aren’t those enterprise zones allowed to be set up anywhere including protected areas. Isn’t that why organisations such as the RSPB are begging people to write to their MP’s

Katie59

Truss has announced “enterprise zones” in the UK so that specific help can be given to technology and business, this sort of initiative can only be good. If it does not bear fruit we can look forward to a slowly declining UK economy.

Her problem now is that she destroyed her credibility by announcing a Mini Budget, then had to back down on several parts.

Do you not realise that 'Enterprise Zones', like freeports, are based on the complete elimination of 'regulation'. That means planning controls, health and safety legislation, worker's pay and conditions?

Creating enclaves of Wild West anarchy outwith state control seems to me like a very bad idea.

As I understand it, the 'regulations' holding back growth are most likely, according to business leaders, to be those imposed by our severance from the EU, putting up barriers to trade where none have existed for 40+ years and completely disrupting their established trade.

Enterprise Zones were tried years ago by the tories, were no great success and were quietly abandoned. You do know the definition of madness, don't you?

Katie59

Truss has announced “enterprise zones” in the UK so that specific help can be given to technology and business, this sort of initiative can only be good. If it does not bear fruit we can look forward to a slowly declining UK economy.

Her problem now is that she destroyed her credibility by announcing a Mini Budget, then had to back down on several parts.

I don't think I can agree on this one Katie. If you want to create the slums of the future this seems to be a good way to go about it. I do feel those who talk with glee about Singapore on Thames have never seen how the majority live there.

I mentioned Germany as an exporter to us another is South Korea, they have a similar population and are a large manufacturer of goods we import, but they are not low wage.
With the low value of sterling the average salary is higher than the UK with growth of 4% in 2021 and a budget surplus of £5-10bn year after year.

The UK could and should do much better

Thought I'd heard of "Enterprise Zones" before. As I remember they were vehicles for giving money to people who opened up new businesses which usually closed not long after getting huge amounts in government grants. (I might be wrong)
And there are still "Levelling up" organisations which don't seem to have done much

Singapore has an average salary of double the UK, the environment cannot possibly be worse than London or any other large city.

www.bbc.com/travel/article/20210407-singapores-endless-pursuit-of-cleanliness