THERE should not be a second independence referendum even if the Supreme Court deems it legal, Liz Truss has said.

I actually find the independence issue quite hurtful. I know the "anti" aspect is directed mostly at the government but it feels like Scottish people don't want anything to do with the rest of us. Moreover, they already have more say about what goes on and are less 'cut off' than those of us in North-east England.

My direction of choice for holidays is northwards into Scotland and I greatly prefer Edinburgh to London. I know it may be considered silly, but it all makes me feel unwanted and unwelcome.

As for comparisons with Brexit, any independence vote should require a wide enough margin as to make objections futile - which the Brexit vote didn't, it was far too close.

?

I'm going for a lie down

X posts volver. Something we actually agree on!

I disagree with you about the voting format Septimia although I do agree the actual result will affect us all in many ways. However I think the vote should come from the people who actually live in Scotland.

Bit like the Brexit vote in 2016 when some ex-pats, living in France, were annoyed to be sidelined and wanted to vote but they were residents of France not actually living in the UK!

Urmstongran

I would imagine so volver if the result of another referendum is a resounding ‘no’. What do you think? Will referendums be regularly called for until you get the result you want?

I won't be giving up Urmstongran

I don't know how the voting will go in such a scenario.

But I do know we won't just be giving up on wanting independence just like that.

Oh, not again.

Sorry Septimia, but this is so old.

Did people living in France or Italy, or Lithuania, get to vote on whether we should Brexit?

You live in Scotland, you pay your tax in Scotland, you get to have a say in how Scotland runs. Thems the breaks.

I would imagine so volver if the result of another referendum is a resounding ‘no’. What do you think? Will referendums be regularly called for until you get the result you want?

Since there are so many English people living north of the Border and so many Scots living south of it (let alone those either side with Scots or English ancestry, or family living the other side), perhaps we should all, whether we live in England or Scotland, have the opportunity to vote in such a referendum. After all, the result will affect all of us.

Urmstongran

I think if another referendum is held and the vote (again) is to reject independence then the SNP will be a sinking ship as voters - even those who wanted to leave the Union - will accept that democratically it’s a lost cause. It’s the only thing Sturgeon has to offer that’s so different to the other parties. Nationalists of all stripes therefore flock together under her banner and promises she makes.

Time to bring this to a head and decide finally, one way or the other.

As there are so many voters in Scotland for whom independence is so important Urmstongran, how do you think they will vote in such a circumstance? Given that the other 3 main parties have come out against independence? Do you think we'll just give up?

The only way Westminster would oust the SNP and their plans for independence would be by magically becoming a great government themselves and wiping out the memory of the last 12 years and the perfectly natural wish of many Scots to completely disassociate themselves from their neighbours.

It aint gonna happen, is it?

I think if another referendum is held and the vote (again) is to reject independence then the SNP will be a sinking ship as voters - even those who wanted to leave the Union - will accept that democratically it’s a lost cause. It’s the only thing Sturgeon has to offer that’s so different to the other parties. Nationalists of all stripes therefore flock together under her banner and promises she makes.

Time to bring this to a head and decide finally, one way or the other.

The most recent Savanta polls has this for Westminster voting intention:

SNP ~ 46% (+1)
Lab ~ 30% (+5)
Con ~ 15% (-3)
LD ~ 8% (nc)

And Holyrood is as the picture.

Getting on for half the votes cast would be for the SNP, even after 14 (?) years in government in Scotland. While the other parties split the remaining half between them, in various proportions. It is obvious that the SNP offer in Scotland is far more effective than that of the other parties; half the voting population thinks that the SNP are offering them something that the others can't match. So as long as we have Dougie Ross flip-flopping like an idiot in what he thinks will keep his Westminster bosses happy, or Sir Keir saying that they will never partner with the SNP, while happily partnering with the Tories at council level, they are not going to come back to anything approaching power in Scotland.

If they want to oust the SNP, they're going to have to come up with something really impressive, and nothing they have at the moment even comes close.

I actually agree Urmstongran. The SNP has made such an unholy mess of running things up here that it's time they were booted out. The only reason they are in is that the opposition is fragmented between Tories, Labour and LibDems. If only they'd work together for the benefit of everyone in Scotland and oust SNP things might start to improve.
A Westminster election right now would help a lot. A credible resurgent Labour would help to convince Scottish voters by giving them confidence in the UK.

I think if the good citizens of Scotland would like to have another referendum, especially as they were dragged out of the EU against their collective will after voting to stay in the UK, then they should have one. This boil has been festering for long enough and needs to be lanced. One way or the other.

Aveline

What percentage of the electorate voted for it exactly?

What percentage of the electorate voted against it exactly?

Enough to have more than half the available seats held by parties making that promise.

That's how it works.

You don't get to change the rules because you don't like how the election turned out. There's a word for that, begins with an "f".

What percentage of the electorate voted for it exactly?

Aveline do you mean when did we vote for parties who had a promise of a referendum in their manifestos? April 2021 when 72 of the available 129 seats were won by parties whose manifestos included that offer.

Had you forgotten?

Really? When?

And we will have another go Aveline. Cause that's what we voted for...

We did.

Ranil Jayawardena MP, Secretary of State for Environment and Rural Affairs, Any Questions Sep 30:

“That’s I guess is the principle here that’s at stake, that it’s up to people to decide their own nation, it’s up to people to decide whether they are an independent state or not”

Actually I think the people of Scotland are sovereign, not the government, but you know what I mean...

I think that people's views on this will depend on whether they think Scotland is a separate country with a sovereign government, or not.

We have elected a government with a manifesto promise to offer a referendum, if the Supreme Court say it would be legal to have one, then Ms Truss can scweam and scweam and scweam until she's sick, but we'll be having one.

If the Court says it wouldn't be legal, then any pretence that the Union is voluntary would be gone, and then we are entitled to take whatever action is required to enact what the Scottish people want. The Scottish people who, I remind you, in our last election, voted for parties (plural) who offered a referendum, to be in the majority in Holyrood.