Voter Identity At Future Elections.

I agree with Volver actually. To make a wild an inaccurate statement such as If they didn't force people to vote, no-one would is absolute rubbish. Nobody has forced me to vote, ever, and I have always done so.

When we had the chauffeuring company misuse of ID for private hire licences often came up at council meetings. One man boasted that he had taken at least 20 written tests for other people.

The council licensing department grew from two staff to six and the cost of licensing became prohibitive, but still nothing was done to stop the con.

is that citizen card an official website; if so why does it not end in .gov.uk ?
or is it a commercial outfit and not universally recognised ?

Katie59

Apply for citizen card here it will cost you £15 - every 3 yrs!.
www.citizencard.com/apply-for-a-uk-id-card-online

Personally I think it should be free and mandatory

Either way I don’t see it introduced anytime soon, doesn’t affect me I have a passport.

Even £15 would be too much for some people. It wouldn't be a priority, food or heating or paying the rent would, so they wouldn't get a vote. These are also the people least likely to have a passport or a driving licence. You are then denying a particular sector of society a vote. Basically, it is an attack on the poorest.

The need for voter ID would be disenfranchising a larger percentage of people than the tiny percentage of voter fraud warrants.

nanna8

You are so wrong Volver. I have lived here for 50 years and I know. You obviously weren’t here very long.

If they didn’t force people to vote, no one would

Tripe.

Well whether you like it or not in May 2023 you will need photo ID to vote, so either get some form of photo ID if voting is important to you or don't vote.

You are so wrong Volver. I have lived here for 50 years and I know. You obviously weren’t here very long.

Apply for citizen card here it will cost you £15 - every 3 yrs!.
www.citizencard.com/apply-for-a-uk-id-card-online

Personally I think it should be free and mandatory

Either way I don’t see it introduced anytime soon, doesn’t affect me I have a passport.

If they didn’t force people to vote, no one would

What rubbish. I've lived in Australia. They value democracy as much as anyone else. This is absolute tripe, I'm sorry to say.

If they didn’t force people to vote, no one would, so the system would be open to some sort of rabid dictatorship. That’s the issue here. We are different from you. Also it is a nice handy source of revenue of course along with speeding fines and traffic offences. I got fined once after a local council election. I was busy working and just forgot to vote and I didn’t know any of the candidates anyway.

maddyone

I don’t see why proving who you are with photo ID is a loss of democratic rights. For those who haven’t already got photo ID it is proposed that councils will issue a photo card to them. The rest of us have passports, driving licenses etc. No one will be stopped from voting.

1. It's a right that we give up at our peril. Sorry to be overdramatic, but we have never had to prove who we are at point of voting to take part in democracy in this country, and there is nothing to say we need to do that now.

2. If you have to apply for something, that inherently will put some people off. People who struggle with literacy. People who can't get to the council offices. People who are suspicious of authority. People who find it difficult to interact with authority. People who have always had the right to vote and who are having it chipped away at because of some spurious and unproven idea that we "need more security".

3. Many will be stopped from voting.

We don't have ID cards in this country because none of us need to prove to anyone who we are, just for walking down the street. If we are obliged to have ID cards to be a part of the democratic process in this country, then that is no longer democratic. Are we really saying that we trust governments to always act honourably where Voter ID is concerned? With this lot in power?

Finally - how do you get that photo ID from the council if you don't have an address? Can we have some critical thought about this proposed process and what it really means please?

Forcing people to vote would entail a loss of democratic rights. Although many countries do insist on it, and I can understand that, some people simply don’t want to vote, or can’t be bothered. We already have postal voting, and so everyone can vote if they want to. But homeless people without an address may be unable to vote as they have no address. Photo ID would give them the right to vote.

I don’t see why proving who you are with photo ID is a loss of democratic rights. For those who haven’t already got photo ID it is proposed that councils will issue a photo card to them. The rest of us have passports, driving licenses etc. No one will be stopped from voting.

MaizieD

nanna8

I have been a poll clerk and vote counter a couple of times,too. It would be quite easy during the counting process after the boxes are emptied. I believe they are going to change things here ,they have finally worked it out. I hope they bring ID s in,too. Probably they will at some stage because they like to collect non voter fines. We have a Premier who is blatantly dishonest so trust is an issue . No one trusts politicians here.

This is totally irrelevant to the matter of voter ID.

No amount of voter ID would stop your rather wild scenario of the counter getting busy with a rubber... (and how many votes would have to be altered to affect the result?)

We're talking about a person pretending to be another person in order to cast a fraudulent vote. Which is, in itself, a pretty wild scenario. You'd need 100s or 1,000s of impersonators to have a significant effect on a result.

The Australian system is already very different to ours. It's probably quite difficult to compare them but ... I do like the fact that you have to vote as long as they issue the statistics for those who don't want anyone mentioned on the voting paper.

Counting could be mechanised. It could cost less and be quicker. However, we would all want to know it is at least as accurate.

Having read most of this thread, I'm still none the wiser about postal voting. How can I prove my identity by putting X on a form and posting it back. Especially in homes of multiple occupation or in blocks of flats, the mail may be quite easily appropriated by the wrong person. Where the voter who received it is confused or speaks another language, someone else may 'help' them to cast their vote. It's a small minefield but it does happen.

Is the problem in your council area personation? Is it large scale? Because if it's not, then it's unlikely that photo ID will solve any potential problem.

Took the words out of my mouth, volver

Well if they have discovered something that needs investigation, their systems are good enough to identify issues and allow them to be assessed.

Is the problem in your council area personation? Is it large scale? Because if it's not, then it's unlikely that photo ID will solve any potential problem.

We shouldn't just introduce limits on our democratic rights without very good reasons for doing so and right now, we don't have any reason at all.

HousePlantQueen

Joy241

This is a difficult one. Yes, it can be discriminatory, but I do understand that while there are vote fixing scandals around, something needs to be done. It is a balancing act.

which 'vote fixing scandals' are you talking about? Or are you parroting our friend Trump? It really isn't acceptable to make wild statements without evidence.

HousePlantQueen No, I am not parroting anyone, let alone Trump, who is no friend of mine! There is still an investigation going on in my own area after council elections. Whether the allegations prove true or not, there is obviously reason for the security to be suspect

nanna8

I have been a poll clerk and vote counter a couple of times,too. It would be quite easy during the counting process after the boxes are emptied. I believe they are going to change things here ,they have finally worked it out. I hope they bring ID s in,too. Probably they will at some stage because they like to collect non voter fines. We have a Premier who is blatantly dishonest so trust is an issue . No one trusts politicians here.

This is totally irrelevant to the matter of voter ID.

No amount of voter ID would stop your rather wild scenario of the counter getting busy with a rubber... (and how many votes would have to be altered to affect the result?)

We're talking about a person pretending to be another person in order to cast a fraudulent vote. Which is, in itself, a pretty wild scenario. You'd need 100s or 1,000s of impersonators to have a significant effect on a result.

The current plan is for photo identification so if you don’t have one you have plenty of time to get one.
Wether it will be implemented is another matter, so is identity of postal voters which is far more open to fraud.

It would be quite easy during the counting process after the boxes are emptied

What would be easy? Rubbing out pencil votes? Destroying voting papers?

I too have counted at elections. In my experience, there are a fair number of you in the same area, it would soon be picked up if you were busy with your rubber. And the papers have to be strictly checked with how many are in the ballot box, so not much chance of getting rid of some.

Yes, am sure the system could be open to corruption if enough staff wanted it, but hopefully the vast majority just want to do their proper job.

I have been a poll clerk and vote counter a couple of times,too. It would be quite easy during the counting process after the boxes are emptied. I believe they are going to change things here ,they have finally worked it out. I hope they bring ID s in,too. Probably they will at some stage because they like to collect non voter fines. We have a Premier who is blatantly dishonest so trust is an issue . No one trusts politicians here.

Do you think the poorer people in the uk are less intelligent than those in other countries that use ID? I am sure that they will be perfectly capable of managing and will be given help if needed.

And you don’t have to use a pencil, you can vote using your own pen if you so wish.

Though speaking as a poll clerk, how we are supposed to rub out someone’s pencilled vote after the voting paper has gone into the sealed box beats me.

what about providing some evidence of the voter fraud you seem to think exists?

It's hiding under the bed with the Brexit benefits.