Big rise in long term sick.

LtEve

I have read the ONS report which does state not to rely too much on these figure for the longer term as it refers to 2021 when covid, home working etc changed figures. This years figures will be more interesting as work and social lives return to normal.

Work and social lives won't return to "normal" until Covid disappears - and that's not going to happen for a long time yet, despite the government's blinkered approach.

Maizie makes a good point. The NHS isn't seeing most of the people absent from work through sickness.

In my experience most of the long term sick within the NHS plus those patients I speak to are nothing to do with long covid. Most have musculoskeletal problems that they can’t get treatment for in a timely manner, long term autoimmune conditions or mental health conditions, again very little treatment available.

With respect, LtEve the long term sick you are seeing in the NHS are possibly not completely representative of the long term sick included in the ONS figures. With waiting lists up to 6million + and not necessarily just people of employment age (16 - 64) there are two different things being measured.

The ONS says that 25% of long term sickness is covid related. I can't actually see that changing very much for 2022 as covid is still a huge, if officially unacknowledged, problem.

Mental health conditions count for a significant and steady percentage of long term sickness absence.

Having experienced this in our family I can say how very difficult it is to get help, support of even a diagnosis for anyone suffering from mental illness. I can see how someone without support could languish unable to work for years, possibly forever. The lack of spending in this area is a tragedy for those involved and a huge cost to the country.

I have read the ONS report which does state not to rely too much on these figure for the longer term as it refers to 2021 when covid, home working etc changed figures. This years figures will be more interesting as work and social lives return to normal.

According to the report (from the ONS), the number of musculoskeletal problems have remained relatively consistent since 2017, so don't explain the rise in total sickness absence.

Urmstongran

^Brexit decimated care provision as many of the carers came from Europe^

Lt.Eve when I mentioned up thread about the situation being more nuanced, this is a good example.

If care home OWNERS paid more and valued their staff, British workers would take up jobs in the sector. Some care homes charge £1,500 per WEEK now - so someone’s pockets are being very well lined and it isn’t the workers on the minimum wage!

I really don’t agree. The fees charged in care homes really do not enable owners to pay a lot more if they are to provide decent food and accommodation for residents. Heating, lighting, laundry, food, replacing furniture and textiles (more frequently than in your home for reasons I’m sure you can imagine) staff, not just carers but cleaners, cooks, gardeners, people to provide entertainment, resources to allow residents to do art, crafts jigsaws, things that the good homes provide. The only ones that are making enormous profits are those that do not provide these or charge extra for them. They do also have to make some profit. The government does not want to fund local authority nursing homes that would not have to make a profit.

Casdon

Rather than our personal experiences which are not necessarily reflective, here’s the ONS breakdown for 2021.
www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/labourproductivity/articles/sicknessabsenceinthelabourmarket/2021

Thank you for some facts, Casdon.

There's nothing worse than speculation and "theories" based on hearsay.

I'll read the report now.

Assuming that happened, where are the staff going to come from?

We have the lowest level of unemployment for 10s of decades.

Brexit decimated care provision as many of the carers came from Europe

Lt.Eve when I mentioned up thread about the situation being more nuanced, this is a good example.

If care home OWNERS paid more and valued their staff, British workers would take up jobs in the sector. Some care homes charge £1,500 per WEEK now - so someone’s pockets are being very well lined and it isn’t the workers on the minimum wage!

Rather than our personal experiences which are not necessarily reflective, here’s the ONS breakdown for 2021.
www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/labourproductivity/articles/sicknessabsenceinthelabourmarket/2021

In my experience most of the long term sick within the NHS plus those patients I speak to are nothing to do with long covid. Most have musculoskeletal problems that they can’t get treatment for in a timely manner, long term autoimmune conditions or mental health conditions, again very little treatment available.
Amongst the hundreds of people I know of varying ages, who have had covid ( most of us have had it at least once) there are only about 3 who have been off sick with long covid let alone on long term sick.
I think the powers that be use long covid as an excuse as it’s something they can’t be blamed for.

I was listening to radio 2 yesterday, as I do when I am at work and it was heavily suggested the figure had a direct link to how many people were still 'long term sick' from long covid.

The long term sick figure will include the 1 million + Long Covid sufferers of course. It really is time that the government stopped pretending it was all over and no more damaging than a bout of flu...

LtEve: The government does not put people at the forefront of its decision making

No, it certainly doesn't - and not just in the NHS.

Correction - it would appear a handful of people are at the forefront of decision making!

www.reuters.com/world/uk/uk-long-term-sickness-rate-rises-highest-since-2005-2022-09-13/

Long-term sickness rate rises to highest since 2005. Does anybody have more details? Any idea what they're suffering from? Or whether they're claiming benefits or "economically inactive"?

I'd like to know some more details about who the "long-term sick" are. It wouldn't surprise me if some of them are people who can't get an initial appointment with their GP, so conditions don't get treated early enough.

A friend of mine (a GP) currently has Covid, possible caught from a patient. This is the first time she has been infected and I know she's always been extremely cautious. Unfortunately, her practice isn't allowed to insist that patients wear masks or are screened for Covid. There are now 7 members of the practice staff with Covid and they had to suspend seeing anybody except absolute emergencies for a few days. I expect this is happening in other practices and, undoubtedly, there will be some people with serious conditions who haven't been identified.

I have no doubt that Covid has contributed to the situation, but it was obvious even before Covid that the NHS is on its knees.

The NHS has been deteriorating since I started working for it 13 years ago.
Closing community hospitals has been a disaster as people have nowhere to go for rehab. The care system is dreadfully underfunded, there's a waiting list for carers even if you're self-funding and if you're not then there's very little hope of decent care provision. Brexit decimated care provision as many of the carers came from Europe. As a result, medically fit people are stuck in hospital waiting to either find a rehab bed or go home with adequate care. Frequently they go home with inadequate care and bounce back in again worse than they were.

Covid didn't help especially with the restrictions, isolation caused an epidemic of loneliness which has caused and worsened mental health conditions in young and old. Funding for mental health care is diabolically low.

The government does not put people at the forefront of its decision making and is prone to knee jerk reactions seemingly with very little thought. This results in demoralised staff who either look to go elsewhere or leave healthcare altogether. We have lost so much experience over the last ten years, and this is something you can't quickly replicate.

It’s a mixture of factors. There will be some people waiting for surgical procedures, but there will be more who are unable to work because they have mental health issues or caring responsibilities. Part of the government’s strategy is to force people on benefits to work, and a scattergun approach which treats them as a homogenous group, including those who are genuinely sick, is meant to stir public outrage at how many ‘scroungers’ there are.

With respect BlueBelle I think the situation is a whole lot more nuanced than that. Senior doctors pension pots for starters.

You tell yourself that Umstrongran it’s a result of long term Tories stealthily privatising the NHS and compounded by Brexit where many of our nurses, dentists and doctors came from

And of course when a health care system has been so undervalued by its paymaster - the government- and faced with cuts year upon year as well as a serious staff shortage, the existing employees are under so much pressure that resignations are inevitable.

The list had grown exponentially before covid, covid has simply exacerbated it.

I think it’s more ‘Covid’ than ‘cuts’. Not helped by this either:

“Almost half of hospital doctors plan to leave the NHS in the next year risking the “complete collapse” of the health service, a survey by the British Medical Association (BMA) shows.

Respondents said they planned to take voluntary retirement, take a career break or enter the private sector.

The BMA survey, of more than 7,700 hospital consultants in England, found 44 per cent were planning to leave.”

Source: The Telegraph this morning.

I had an MR I in July and am waiting for an app to see the spinal team. I enquired and was told there is a 50 week wait. I'll be in a wheelchair by then.