If this was a natal born woman standing for election would it be acceptable to tolerated.

The likelihood is that EI would do nothing, except perhaps parade his 'girlself' in an aggressive manner, as he did with the teenagers in the Ladies. That's absolutely not the point, though.

When women are vulnerable (and it's hard to think of a time when we are more so than in a hospital bed - undressed, ill, scared, maybe wounded or with a drip attached) we need to feel safe. Having a strange* man in the next bed is not likely to encourage feelings of safety. Also, whereas EI might pose no actual threat, there are many men who would, and as we keep saying, when one is allowed in, they all are, and we have no safe spaces.

*strange as in 'unknown'

LizzieDrip

^I certainly wouldn’t want him in a hospital bed next to me, or in a changing room next to me.^

Why not? What do you think they are likely to do?

What’s that got to do with anything LizzieDrip?
She wouldn’t like it and if it was supposed to be a female ward or changing area, it’s wrong. That’s the only justification necessary.
Are you saying we should allow things that are wrong? Who gets to choose which wrong things are allowed?
You?
Males?
Females?

I certainly wouldn’t want him in a hospital bed next to me, or in a changing room next to me.

Why not? What do you think they are likely to do?

Just under 3 mins - Jean Hatchet on Izzard.

mobile.twitter.com/LBC/status/1585905450276589568

The magic of Girl Mode !

It doesn't matter what 'some people' might feel, they continue to be the sex they were born.
They can present themselves however they like.

The Scottish Government has just started legislation which will enable any people, not just 'some people' to get legal recognition of being the opposite sex from reality.

Men like Izzard, and others who haven't even bothered to wear dresses or lipstick, will simply need to declare '"Ive felt like a woman for at least 3 months", then 'reflect' for another 3 months and - bingo! He gets a GRC which entitles him to also get a birth certificate stating 'female'.

This is showbiz
I'm inclined to agree. It's attention seeking.

That in no way detracts from my view that some people are genuine in their feelings and need to proceed with help along the programme to help them.

But EI? No.

There's a case at the moment, where an individual dressed as a woman, exposed their genitals on a train to a couple of school girls, but the Transport Police being ultra cagey, won't confirm this person's sex, obviously the girls know. Rosie Duffield Labour MP for Canterbury has critizied that on Twitter. Talking of whom, I believe EI, specifically taking aim at her something along the lines of "some people need to come into the 21st century " apropos of their floating gender. It seems EI is in girl mode now, that's "girl" definition female child adolescent.

Watch it sandelf, you’ll be no platformed or accused of being a bigoted term ?

I live near him and have met him several times. He does good philanthropy locally. But I can't quite believe he is a she. There are people (few) 'in the wrong body' or who do not fit quite as either woman or man - but sorry Eddie is a real, real bloke who is pretty awful at being a gal. He manages to be over feminine (comme La Cage aux Folles) and intimidating at the same time. And of course all this gets him publicity that cannot be bought! If he were 'really' in his head a female - no way would he present as he does - likewise were he bi. This is showbiz.

NanKate
He’d be the one who felt threatened, not me. ? With good reason.

JaneJudge

he is just a dick with a dick

Best post on GN I have seen ????

With good reason, NanKate. Official statistics show 85,000 women are raped and over 400,000 are sexually assaulted in the uk every year.

I don’t have stats on how many of these offences are committed by trans women. I expect it’s very small. That isn’t the issue. I’d expect trans women to be as, if not more, concerned about male violence than natal women. In that case, they’d be supporting the right for female women only spaces and campaigning, as we did

FarNorth I agree with you, I too have no problem with men in dresses and makeup that is up to them. They would imo still be male.

If I decided to wear a man’s suit, tie, shirt and have a short haircut what would I be ? Yes a woman in male clothing.

If someone dressed as a female but with male genitalia walked into the Ladies or Changing Room, I would quite rightly feel threatened.

he is just a dick with a dick

twitter.com/VincentFletcher/status/1584466418640506882

And there you have it. Change from boy mode to girl mode by taking off the heels and putting on flats. Note the paid acting role is always operated in boy mode. I wonder why? Couldn't be that in girl mode there'd be few and far between poorly paid roles? Still he's all woman when in 'girl mode', and deserves to use women's spaces.

Izzard has self-identified as a woman. No doubt he'd take the next step to have that legally recognised, if it were available.
You know how we're told that self-id of sex is problem-free in countries which have brought it in?

Here's what's actually happening.

mobile.twitter.com/angijones/status/1500198531612950528

Today the Scottish Parliament begins its process to introduce self-identification of sex.

That’s exactly it. Laws simply can’t be fuzzy or only apply to those with particular feelings. They have to be black and white, so we know whether our actions would break them. There can be some discretion in sentencing, but not in the letter of the law.

They don't accept boys/sons over a certain age in women's refuges (I think it's 10 or 12?) so why are they accepting transwomen

I'm a bit fed up of compassion being cited, all of us posting on here are capable of compassion and acceptance, that isn't what is being discussed and it muddies the water.

I don't trust it either galaxy and I think it is most probably because we both have experience of people's interpretation of law, some of which is used as excuses for poor service and care.

And just because a refuge thinks it's ok doesnt mean it is ok.
Five minutes ago it was fine for transwomen to be in female prisons then oops that caused a few problems so no it's not. Five minutes ago some sports thought that men should compete against women then oops women started getting hurt. Five minutes ago puberty blockers were harmless then oops its seems that they arent harmless. Forgive me I dont entirely trust the decision making with regards to womens safety.

I do not doubt that you try Doodledog and others too.

I have in mind some posts that are basically hating, mocking, exaggerating by using extreme examples with no respect for those like my friend, and the many others like her too.

I am happy to call her "she" but no, I'm not going to have anyone telling me I should label myself "cis" either.

Yes, I recognise that the Scottish Womens aid policy is contested, opinions vary, either as absolutes or degrees, just as the English policy is contested. Bound to be.

For me a lot of problems rest around resourcing, not principle. Ie, the resources in these troubled times for enough space and workers to keep all who need it feeling supported, and just as important, resources for counselling and so on so that people can make the right decisions for themselves and for the world around them, and emerge feeling supported not angry and bitter - and aggressive.

Women's Aid Scotland does accept trans women and have thought it through with passion and care.

What evidence do you have of this?
I recently heard a talk by a retired manager of a Scottish Women's Aid centre who said that those actually working in the centres, and the women clients, were never consulted.
The decision was made by office-bound upper management.
A main reason was that the Scottish Government made it a condition of funding that organisations have a 'trans-inclusive' policy.

A transwoman always remains a man, regardless of what heart-searching he has done.
If I encounter your friend Wyllow3 in the next bed to me in hospital, I have no idea of his heart-searching or intentions.
I will be wary of him because he is a male in a situation which should be female-only.

If Izzard had continued to present himself as a man who likes dresses and make-up, I would have had no problem.
But instead he now claims to be a woman, or even a girl, which are both untrue.
Why should I trust him about anything else?

I think most of us do accept those like your friend though. Speaking for myself I have always said on here that I do just that - the howls of ‘transphobe’ come from those who refuse to believe what I say, based on their prejudice, not my actions.

The difficulty comes when transwomen insist that they are women and therefore have to be given access to all women’s spaces. That, particularly when combines with self- id, means that we no longer have women’s spaces, and yes - I object to that strongly. To concentrate on calling out those who ‘misbehave’ puts the onus on women and girls to defend our right to a safe space, which many will not be up to doing - particularly when we are vulnerable because of illness, nakedness, age or anything (we shouldn’t have to justify what makes us feel vulnerable).

That, plus the way the language is shifting to eradicate women, makes it difficult at times to remain tolerant of people like your friend - the trans lobby does favours for very few, and most of them only for those who shout the loudest. Many of us continue to try though, and it is dispiriting to be told by anonymous people online that we do not.

There could be compromise (as opposed to asking women to simply capitulate), if transwomen accepted that they are transwomen and made that the starting point for acceptance, instead of insisting that being a woman boils down to a ‘feeling’ and worse, can come down to how someone feels on a given day.

Thanks for explaining bi sexuality to me
And no I wont accept men in women spaces.

I know one trans woman very well. (she's a Quaker)
It was a later in life, long agonised over decision. she is a loving, tender and respectful person who would never cross boundaries if it hurt or threatened. I respect her choice. I love her for who she is, not who others imagine her to be never having met her.

I have no time for those who militantly choose to disrespect and invade women.

(At the gym there are a couple of women who I am pretty sure are trans. I have no idea how far along the process of treatment they are except they can pass as women - just. In the changing rooms they use the cubicles. If there were any sign of "willy waving" they would be hounded out by the women there: there are rules at the gym, as there are in many public places, about behaviour likely to distress or offend.)

Let me repeat: I dont have time and would oppose those who feel the need to aggressively force themselves into situations. I realise it is a very contentious area: for a recent meeting I did some research: for example Womens Aid England do not accept transwomen generally in refuges I say generally, for they dont ask these who come to them if they look, speak, act like a woman and who've been seriously abused.
..but Women's Aid Scotland does accept trans women and have thought it through with passion and care. but they would not accept anyone - natal women nor trans woman - who transgressed the boundaries of that situation.

My take on it is this: I believe that, for whichever reason, some women feel threatened by the very existence of trans women and cannot include them in their hearts and minds as women by gender. I do not feel threatened, although I would take action if I was. I feel proud of being a woman, and feel that a few additions to our number do not stop who I am leading my life as a women: indeed welcome some who wish to further Womens rights.

I'm a realist: I don't think that is viable for transwomen to join in natal womens sports, for example.

I think that over the last 30 years gender definitions have become more fluid. the old binaries of straight "men" and "women" may suit some but dont represent the realities of some peoples lives. For example, a number of people are and have always been bi-sexual, its just that its been behind closed doors, as gay people once had to be.

Open the doors, cease to be afraid, or simply nasty and hating. Be "picky". Call out those who are aggressively hating women deep down, and using gender issues as an excuse, and accept those like my friend who like most trans people want to live an ordinary life.