The Brexit Effect

Many Labour constituencies changed to Conservative more or less overnight MaizieD simply in order to get Brexit moving.
They wanted a government who would honour the results of the referendum.So it is not difficult to see that these voters would be outraged by a government that went back on their word.Yes, it is indeed a political hot potato.
It did not do any good to be outraged and march by the result of the referendum because it was a fair and democratic vote.
I did not like the result either, but it was a fair one person one vote choice and I do not believe in challenging that because it does not fit in with my own thinking.
Mr Starmer, if he does make it to Number Ten next time, may or may not take us into the single market.We cannot know.

Urmstongran

Brexit was voted for. Sadly however, along came the pandemic, lockdowns, eye watering furlough payments and distribution of effective vaccines.

Once the dust has settled a bit from all that, Brexit will be back on the agenda. Progress will be made eventually because we are not rejoining the EU. We will be trying more robustly to pull away.

Oh, the delusion is great in some...

The outrage in so many constituencies, and maybe the whole country makes it a hot potato.

What evidence do you have for that statement, Prentice?

The outrage over the Brexit vote led to 1million people marching in protest over it. Who took any notice?

He has promised to make it work, which any PM will have to do.

As Wwmk2 has pointed out, he can 'make it work' by taking us back into the Single Market and the Customs Union. Neither of which are 'the EU'. He hasn't ruled that out.

It would be hugely popular with business and boost our economy. And with the ever growing number of people who, polling tells us, think Brexit was a mistake...

Brexit was voted for. Sadly however, along came the pandemic, lockdowns, eye watering furlough payments and distribution of effective vaccines.

Once the dust has settled a bit from all that, Brexit will be back on the agenda. Progress will be made eventually because we are not rejoining the EU. We will be trying more robustly to pull away.

I think that politics has shown us Whitewavemark2 that we cannot predict anything with certainty, and do not know what will or will not happen, it is just our own thoughts at this time.
But by definition, Mr Starmer cannot make Brexit work by taking us back into it.He can be more friendly with the EU which would help.

Prentice

He cannot make it work Whitewavemark2 by taking us back into the EU.
He will no doubt pursue a friendlier and more diplomatic stance with the EU though.

That is a big assumption.

However, joining the SM and CU appears eminently sensible, and that is what almost certainly will happen - it will give a £100bn immediate boost to the U.K. economy, why wouldn’t you do that?

He cannot make it work Whitewavemark2 by taking us back into the EU.
He will no doubt pursue a friendlier and more diplomatic stance with the EU though.

DaisyAnne

Prentice

Aveline

A nationwide day of protest and strikes in France. All is not well in the EU. I voted to remain in case anyone thinks I'm a brexiteer. Important to note that it's not just GB struggling these days. Putin must be happy. ?

The same here Aveline
Economies are bad everywhere at the moment, it is really impossible to weed out the effect of Brexit and blame it all on that.The pandemic and Putin have had a terrible effect.
Mr Starmer will not want us to join the EU again of course.
It will take so many more years to tell the effect of leaving.

I haven't seen anyone, anywhere, blaming it all on Brexit. However, I have seen those who tied themselves to Brexit saying it has done no harm, or that other things are to blame.

It isn't difficult to see that Brexit has made things worse for us than they needed to be. It has made things worse than other countries have found it to be when they account for Covid and the War in Ukraine.

Starmer will not be able to rejoin the EU immediately. Now is not the time to be trying to have another great upheaval. It is the time, and I believe he will, talk politely and without the hubris of the present government, about mending our import and export rules so we can get back to proper trading relations with the EU. On that, we can build a new relationship with the group, whether it is to rejoin, or become more economically attached than politically. But that is for the future.

Repairing access to the EU market would, at least, allow a little less cutting of our already denuded services, welfare and pensions, and soften, just a little, the raising of taxes for all. This scenario is what this appalling Tory government will leave behind them or, should they remain in office, put into action.

Indeed there are some here who refuse totally to see that Brexit has changed things massively, in so many ways. On another thread, I was accused of 'turning the thread political' because I mentionned that Brexit, very clearly and practically, made the situation very different and presented with many new issues 100% linked to Brexit. Beyond weird.

KS will be able to go to EU and calmly say 'look I have nothing to do with this mess- can you help me improve the situation'. And I think the EU will be only too please to try and put UK back into a form of access to Single Market and Customs Union- but it is also clear that that will, no question, have to include FMOP. Which is a good thing, as we desperately need more people to do the jobs.

Starmer has not said that he would keep us out of the EU, he has said, however, that he will make Brexit work.

Bon chance to all in Europe actually Normandygirl !

Although I did not vote for it, it is clear that the timing of Brexit, unknown at the time of voting of course, came at what would be a bad time.Without the pandemic and the billions it cost for furlough and the downturn in the economy because of the lockdowns, and now what supporting Ukraine costs us as a country, this has indeed muddied the waters about Brexit.
It would only be clear water, had those two things not happened.
Mr Starmer cannot politically renege on the promise to keep us out of the EU, nor do I believe he would ever do so. The outrage in so many constituencies, and maybe the whole country makes it a hot potato.He has promised to make it work, which any PM will have to do.
In my view it is no good wanting to wind back the clock, reading anti-Brexit articles or bemoaning what has happened.
It may, or not, prove to have been a poor idea to have a referendum on this, but we did, and we have to accept that.
I think just now, the whole world, and especially Europe have more pressing problems.

All economic analysis shows that the UK is @ 30% lower than it would have been if it had stayed in the EU.
I don't think the real consequences of this has filtered through to the UK population yet. There have been too many distractions and avoidance tactics used to hide the reality. For example, the UK has still not implemented the required import and customs checks that is required by law and the NI protocol has still not been dealt with yet. The EU implemented all the changes immediately and has already absorbed the damage from brexit and can put it behind them and move on.
The people in UK have yet to face the real pain of their decision but that reality is fast approaching. Bon Chance!

Prentice

Aveline

A nationwide day of protest and strikes in France. All is not well in the EU. I voted to remain in case anyone thinks I'm a brexiteer. Important to note that it's not just GB struggling these days. Putin must be happy. ?

The same here Aveline
Economies are bad everywhere at the moment, it is really impossible to weed out the effect of Brexit and blame it all on that.The pandemic and Putin have had a terrible effect.
Mr Starmer will not want us to join the EU again of course.
It will take so many more years to tell the effect of leaving.

I haven't seen anyone, anywhere, blaming it all on Brexit. However, I have seen those who tied themselves to Brexit saying it has done no harm, or that other things are to blame.

It isn't difficult to see that Brexit has made things worse for us than they needed to be. It has made things worse than other countries have found it to be when they account for Covid and the War in Ukraine.

Starmer will not be able to rejoin the EU immediately. Now is not the time to be trying to have another great upheaval. It is the time, and I believe he will, talk politely and without the hubris of the present government, about mending our import and export rules so we can get back to proper trading relations with the EU. On that, we can build a new relationship with the group, whether it is to rejoin, or become more economically attached than politically. But that is for the future.

Repairing access to the EU market would, at least, allow a little less cutting of our already denuded services, welfare and pensions, and soften, just a little, the raising of taxes for all. This scenario is what this appalling Tory government will leave behind them or, should they remain in office, put into action.

Excellent article in the Observer today, tracing the disaster that has been the Conservative party over the last 12 years.

From Cameron’s austerity decision, which ensured poor growth and increasing inequality. Interest rates were, throughout his tenure, at zero, but he absolutely failed to take advantage of this and rebuild the infrastructure and industries so badly needed in the north. The balance was far too tilted to the south and they never understood the necessary re-balancing that was needed.

This lead directly to Brexit, when people were easily persuaded by siren arguments that immigration and the need to take back control plus of course the lie that was the £350million.

The continued disaster and worsening crises that is the Tory party is as a direct result of this Brexit farce, plus of course their sheer incompetence, but nothing is able to mitigate the effects of Brexit.

Prentice

Aveline

A nationwide day of protest and strikes in France. All is not well in the EU. I voted to remain in case anyone thinks I'm a brexiteer. Important to note that it's not just GB struggling these days. Putin must be happy. ?

The same here Aveline
Economies are bad everywhere at the moment, it is really impossible to weed out the effect of Brexit and blame it all on that.The pandemic and Putin have had a terrible effect.
Mr Starmer will not want us to join the EU again of course.
It will take so many more years to tell the effect of leaving.

No-one is denying there are issues in the EU- Italy is in a right mess at the moment. And yes, issues in France too. Covid, war in Ukraine, and other factors have all played a rôle.

The UK however, fact, has had that other massive factor, Brexit- which has made it all much much worse. This is abundantly clear.

This what a outer, pointing to global financial problems, in no way indicates Brexit was anything but a disaster for the UK.

Aveline

A nationwide day of protest and strikes in France. All is not well in the EU. I voted to remain in case anyone thinks I'm a brexiteer. Important to note that it's not just GB struggling these days. Putin must be happy. ?

The same here Aveline
Economies are bad everywhere at the moment, it is really impossible to weed out the effect of Brexit and blame it all on that.The pandemic and Putin have had a terrible effect.
Mr Starmer will not want us to join the EU again of course.
It will take so many more years to tell the effect of leaving.

Katie59

Brexit is a fact of life there is no point complaining, I was hugely disappointed we voted leave. Even more disappointed with my friends, who could not see through the Brexit lie told by Johnson et al.
It’s a crazy world when Johnson has been disgraced large numbers of Tories still want him back

Ah, but there are still some addicted to "Brexit", that word with no actual meaning. It really is something to pity.

Many have reached rock bottom, apologised for their behaviour and have been "sober" for some time. Others still believe in the "high" it promised. It has split families in some cases. One problem is that the "pusher" is back. Many cannot stay away.

In some ways, a drug, any drug, seems an easy way to a high; that feeling that "we won". However, they destroy lives. The wish to repeat that sense of euphoria continues to be sought. Yes, it makes for inappropriate behaviour - shouting at others and trying to sell them their drug, but that is what happens to the addicted.

Sadly too, it can lead to anxiety and a loss of mental sharpness. We see this in the belief that hanging on to the drug "Brexit" is something they need, although even they, in more rational moments, may be able to see that nothing good and a great deal of harm comes from it. Then there is the paranoia, the feeling that everyone is against them, the lashing out of the frightened paranoid.

It's very, very sad. All we can hope is that, over time, most will recover.

I’ve more to worry about than things that won’t change. Too much going on with the Prime Minister fiasco.

Katie59

Not confusing Maizie, they would insist on Shengen and reverting to their regulations in many areas. Labour voters in the North and East voted leave largely on the migrant issue so although I would love to see us in the Customs Union I don’t see it happening.

Nor will an independant Scotland unless there is a customs border with England. Brexit opened Pandora’s box and it’s going to be very difficult to close the lid, when we made so many enemies in the EU.

Customs Union has nothing to do with Schengen, Katie59. Nor does the Single Market, come to that.

Most of the Leave voters I know ( I live in the NE) are tory voters...

varian

On Radio 4's "Political Thinking" ex brexit minister David Frost confirmed what I have long thought - that the Conservative Party is not the Brexit Party.

Sorry about the typo.

This should have read "the Conservative Party is NOW the Brexit Party"⁴

Not confusing Maizie, they would insist on Shengen and reverting to their regulations in many areas. Labour voters in the North and East voted leave largely on the migrant issue so although I would love to see us in the Customs Union I don’t see it happening.

Nor will an independant Scotland unless there is a customs border with England. Brexit opened Pandora’s box and it’s going to be very difficult to close the lid, when we made so many enemies in the EU.

Katie59

Wether Starmer will be able to join the Customs Union is not straightforward, there will have to be a lot of changes to enable that, many Labour voters would be opposed to those.
The EU would be in the driving seat and would not compromise, we rejoin to their rules and I don’t see it happening anytime soon.

You're confusing the Customs Union with the EU, Katie59.

And I'll remind you that two thirds of Labour voters voted Remain.

And Labour is some 30 points ahead in the polls...

Wether Starmer will be able to join the Customs Union is not straightforward, there will have to be a lot of changes to enable that, many Labour voters would be opposed to those.
The EU would be in the driving seat and would not compromise, we rejoin to their rules and I don’t see it happening anytime soon.

Brexit is a fact of life there is no point complaining, I was hugely disappointed we voted leave. Even more disappointed with my friends, who could not see through the Brexit lie told by Johnson et al.
It’s a crazy world when Johnson has been disgraced large numbers of Tories still want him back