The Brexit Effect

I think he’s happy to watch the Conservative part tear itself apart. I’ve seen comments on Facebook saying how that’s what happens when you have a remainer PM because so many people don’t realise that Sunak is a right wing brexiter. He has to strengthen ties with Europe to help the economy but, by doing so he’s alienating himself from his own party. Gruesomely fascinating stuff!

I haven’t given up on Starmer quite yet.

I am still hoping that he is playing the waiting game, because the right wing rags would shriek blue murder if there was a tiny hint of Labour wanting closer relations.

It would be a better choice to wait until much nearer the election when the manifestos are being drawn up and it will be much easier to measure the publics opinion regarding to closer relations.

I agree MaizieD.

Starmer is beginning to look sadly out of step. There is a danger of him becoming a bit of a sad Theresa May figure, desperate to play down his Remainer credentials for fear of the right wing press and the brexit voters. It is time he remembered that the majority of LP voters voted Remain.

^ But that won't stop the loonies on the Right of the Tory Party from causing trouble for Sunak if he mentions the idea.^

I really hope, Grantanow that they cause him so much bother that we have to have a general election.

It is more than time that we got rid of this utterly pointless, talentless and incompetent government. Not that I have huge confidence in the alternative, but at least they seem to have some concern about the disintegration of our public services and making a start on 'greening' the UK.

Starmer will have to start changing his narrative about the Single Market, though...

The tide does seem to be turning as the elephant in the room becomes too hard to ignore.

Even the Brexit Broadcasting Corporation, which bears much responsibilty for relentlessly promoting Farage and his dangerous nonsense for years, actually broadcast an item on R4 "The World at One" to day where they openly discussed the damage done by Brexit and interviewed a regretful leave voter. (item started around 1.15pm).

Of course, this had to be "balanced" with an interview with Teresa Villiers, onetime NI Secretary who still talks about "Brexit freedoms" and tries to big up our puny post brexit trade deals. I wonder whether even she still believes this rubbish.

The Swiss arrangement is not a quick fix. It took years and years to negotiate. But that won't stop the loonies on the Right of the Tory Party from causing trouble for Sunak if he mentions the idea. The UK made a terrible mistake over Brexit and both Parties are terrified of the numpties who still think it was a good idea despite all the evidence. There is no quick way back alas.

Daisy 😬
Let's hope this bunch can actually learn from this!!
(I do realise learning from others is not high in their "skillset")

Interesting to think that the "Swiss style relationship" has taken 50 years to get where it is now. Assuming we can put the tendency to blame and insult the EU to one side and that we have actually go something to build on, I still don't see us having much to write home about by the next election.

Not that I am not happy they are looking at any way of getting back to proper trading agreements with our biggest, closest market. Any start is better than the mess of the last 6 years.

This is how The Swiss did it: (from the bottom up)

2022: Start of exploratory talks with the EU on the Federal Council’s proposal for a new negotiation package (press release of 25 February 2022)
2021: Termination of negotiations on an institutional agreement; it will not be concluded
2019: Signing of the Agreement on the participation in the area of police cooperation (Prüm Decision)
2017: Signing of the Agreement between Switzerland and the EU on the linking of their emissions trading systems
2017: Full association of Switzerland in «Horizon 2020»
2016: Decision by Parliament on the implementation of Art. 121a Cst
2016: Signing of Protocol III extending the free movement of persons to Croatia
2015: Signing of the Agreement on the Automatic Exchange of Information in Tax Matters
2014: Signing of the EASO participation Agreement (European Asylum Support Office)
2014: Adoption of the federal popular initiative «Stop Mass Immigration»
2013: Adoption by the Federal Council of a mandate to negotiate an agreement on institutional matters
2013: Signing of the Satellite Navigation Cooperation Agreement
2013: Signing of the Agreement on Competition
2012: Signing of the Agreement on the European Defence Agency
2010: Signing of the Agreement on Education, Training and Youth
2009: Continuation of the free movement of persons and extension to Romania and Bulgaria
2008: Signing of the Agreement with Eurojust
2006: Adoption by the Swiss electorate of the Federal Act on Cooperation with the Countries of Eastern Europe
2005: Extension of the free movement of persons to the EU10
2004: Signing of the Agreement with Europol
2004: Signing of Bilaterals II (Schengen/Dublin, taxation of savings income, combating fraud, processed agricultural products, environment, statistics, MEDIA programme, pensions)
1999: Signing of Bilaterals I (free movement of persons, technical barriers to trade, public procurement, agriculture, overland transport, civil aviation, research)
1992: Rejection of EEA membership by the Swiss electorate
1990: Signing of the Agreement on Customs Facilitation and Security
1989: Signing of the Insurance Agreement
1972: Signing of the Switzerland–EU Free Trade Agreement

Whitewavemark2

So single market being suggested under the guise of a “Swiss style relationship”

Good.

'Swiss style relationship' eh?

Sunak loses his majority and we have a general election then?

The ERG loons would never stand for it....

Bring it on...

So single market being suggested under the guise of a “Swiss style relationship”

Good.

Brexit is listed as a spectacular own goal, in a list of own goals that this government can be held responsible for by Paul Johnson Director of IFS, today. He also includes cuts to education, saying that FE didn't get a mention in the budget. Now, I wonder why that is?

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

I thought Vicky Atkins MP was totally flummoxed by the audience member on QT last night who highlighted the Brexit obstacles to exporting faced by his small business. He was much applauded by the audience. All she could do was refer to the referendum decision and that the government had been busy with other things. After 6 years? And Johnson claiming it would be hassle free? Where are the Rees-Moggian 'Brexit opportunities'? Another useless Minister.

growstuff

Snap Maizie. Sorry!

Great minds think alike 😆

vegansrock

It’s funny how the government can make U turns and change its mind all the time , yet if anyone challenges Brexit it’s the will of the people and they can’t change their minds?

More importantly it’s the will of the Tory party, it’s clear nothing is going to change for at least 2 yrs, in the mean time ultra austerity.

It’s funny how the government can make U turns and change its mind all the time , yet if anyone challenges Brexit it’s the will of the people and they can’t change their minds?

Snap Maizie. Sorry!

Urmstongran

Shame many of that 56% couldn’t be bothered to vote at the time FleurPepper it would have made a real difference. As it is, we are where we are. It’s how democracy works.

Something like 3.5 million wouldn't have been old enough to vote in 2016. An equivalent number who voted leave have since died.

Urmstongran

Shame many of that 56% couldn’t be bothered to vote at the time FleurPepper it would have made a real difference. As it is, we are where we are. It’s how democracy works.

6 years later,*Ug*, a considerable number of old Leave voters have died and 6 year's worth of 18 year olds have become voters. It's demographics.

Your glory days of Leave have gone...

Shame many of that 56% couldn’t be bothered to vote at the time FleurPepper it would have made a real difference. As it is, we are where we are. It’s how democracy works.

Katie59

Payments are a large part of ALL farmers income, large businesses have large fixed costs, currently it’s the cost of fuel, fertilisers and chemicals thats foremost, along with labour.
We visited a large local veg grower in August on a farm walk where he showed us his new salad growing system. Curious I checked his 2020 accounts on company check, on a turnover of £14m the surplus was less than £50k.

I doubt that you would have seen how much was taken out of the company in Directors' remuneration - pension premiums, salary, benefits in kind, such as cars and health care and dividends etc etc. The benefits in kind will be taxable but the company will have paid 100% of the cost and the director would have suffered probably 40%tax.

Back to Brexit

Just 32 per cent of British voters now think the UK was right to leave the EU, a new poll has found.

The figure from pollster YouGov is the lowest on record and the latest continuation of a trend stretching back to last year.

A full 56 per cent now explicitly think Britain was wrong to leave

Hmmm ... not so sure about that. My ex has done very nicely out of BTL ... and still is, as far as I know. He no longer has mortgages.

Anyway, the point I was making is that £50k profit on £14m hardly makes it worth it. If not BTL, I'm sure he could think of an easier way of making money which didn't involve so much hard work.

growstuff

Katie59

Payments are a large part of ALL farmers income, large businesses have large fixed costs, currently it’s the cost of fuel, fertilisers and chemicals thats foremost, along with labour.
We visited a large local veg grower in August on a farm walk where he showed us his new salad growing system. Curious I checked his 2020 accounts on company check, on a turnover of £14m the surplus was less than £50k.

The farmer would be better off selling up and becoming a BTL landlord.

Not possible half the capital value would go in taxation and BTL is a hiding to nothing.

Casdon

Katie59

Most of our brightest young people go to university with the aim of becoming a “manager” far too few want to become a “worker”. We are desperate for technicians, scientists and engineers, it’s time higher education offered courses that the country needs not what students fancy doing.

Is that your personal theory? It isn’t borne out by the courses on offer in universities? What courses do you see young people doing which indicates they want to become managers - my experience in the NHS indicates that’s the last thing most young professionals want to do because it’s too much hassle for little personal or financial reward. I think we’re more in the era of the specialist, people want niche jobs in their field of choice, and to become experts in that field.

Not just me, politicians and employers are constantly lamenting the lack of technical skills amongst graduates