Braverman's behaviour in parliament today proves nothing has changed.

Whitewavemark2

Normandygirl

It's impossible to believe that Sunak didn't realise that re-appointing Braverman was going to result in this backlash, so we have to ask the obvious question of why.
Were ERG cabinet appointments, particularly Braverman, the "price" he had to pay to get his hands on the keys to number 10?
If true, then this government is just as rotten as Johnson's and Truss's, are the British public going to turn a blind eye for the next 2 years?

Yes

But then they are as rotten as any government we have lived through. Are you seriously saying that they haven't all been politicians, negotiating their way to power? They have.

Just because you prefer the message of some doesn't mean that the methods weren't exactly the same. That seems very naive.

Normandygirl

It's impossible to believe that Sunak didn't realise that re-appointing Braverman was going to result in this backlash, so we have to ask the obvious question of why.
Were ERG cabinet appointments, particularly Braverman, the "price" he had to pay to get his hands on the keys to number 10?
If true, then this government is just as rotten as Johnson's and Truss's, are the British public going to turn a blind eye for the next 2 years?

Yes

Urmstongran

The Albanian criminal gangs have gained a foothold in Northern France controlling all manner of vile criminality.
What does France think about this and the population of Northern France?

I can't quote exactly from le monde because it was last month I read the articles while in France. The reports were about gangs in northern French towns, especially Lille and Antwerp in Belgium. There were figures about violent crime related to the drug traffickers, including murders. It caught my eye because usually French newspapers focus on Moroccans, but this time it was definitely Albanians.

Normandygirl

It's impossible to believe that Sunak didn't realise that re-appointing Braverman was going to result in this backlash, so we have to ask the obvious question of why.
Were ERG cabinet appointments, particularly Braverman, the "price" he had to pay to get his hands on the keys to number 10?
If true, then this government is just as rotten as Johnson's and Truss's, are the British public going to turn a blind eye for the next 2 years?

It was a trade off.

I could take offence about you not having read my previous posts at this point Normandygirl.

He will have known exactly what backlash (give or take a bit) there would be. There are a couple of reasons why he did it. They are not "good" reasons, but they are excellent political reasons, and all parties indulge in those and have to bear with looking stupid for a while.

The first was the need to get elected. To do this he needed to not have an election and it not to go to the members. The ERG Three will have promised not only their own votes but those of their 'fellow travellers'. Otherwise they would have voted with whoever was nearest to 100 votes and driven it to and election.

The second is that she is actually providing and amazing smoke screen. I bet he is greatful to be able to get on with the work he needs to do. While you (and the press) are attacking her they are attacking him less.

I don't think it is as bad as Johnson and Truss as I (personally) wonder about Johnson's mental health or mental condition and Truss's ability. It's a very small step in the way forward but it could be one we have to go through.

Interesting that Tim Shipman (political editor Sunday Times) reported this story of 'multiple breaches' yesterday (I linked to it on another thread). I wonder if his 'source' was Berry?

Sunak's Cabinet could be falling apart even earlier than expected...

We badly need that general election...

It's impossible to believe that Sunak didn't realise that re-appointing Braverman was going to result in this backlash, so we have to ask the obvious question of why.
Were ERG cabinet appointments, particularly Braverman, the "price" he had to pay to get his hands on the keys to number 10?
If true, then this government is just as rotten as Johnson's and Truss's, are the British public going to turn a blind eye for the next 2 years?

Urmstongran

The Albanian criminal gangs have gained a foothold in Northern France controlling all manner of vile criminality.
What does France think about this and the population of Northern France?

Where do you get this stuff UG. You rarely quote a source.

Whitewavemark2

Apparently the whips were not put into place to defend Braverman - which suggests that No 10 is wavering on this.

Williamson is also being looked at regarding security risks. He resigned for being leaky.

As I have suggested, I think this is a question of tactics and therefore timing. That doesn't make it feel any better but if you ignore anything other than the infighting in the Tory so-called Party, it is bound to happen.

She will go. I imagine he is being advised. I imagine that advice is to do as much damage to the group (ERG) and as little to the party. It's not great. I would like to think they were all completely altruistic beings but even I am not that naive.

The Albanian criminal gangs have gained a foothold in Northern France controlling all manner of vile criminality.
What does France think about this and the population of Northern France?

I'm not sure that helps...

Images of Albanians -
Mother Theresa of Calcutta (now a saint) was an Albanian.
Just saying.

Whitewavemark2

I think that what this whole Braverman affair shows is that Sunak has no control over his cabinet or policies. The far right have held the reins indirectly since Brexit, and Sunak is no liberal, even though he talks about helping the most vulnerable, we know that he began to withdraw money from the rural vulnerable and give it to the better off urban areas.

... even though he talks about helping the most vulnerable, we know that he began to withdraw money from the rural vulnerable and give it to the better off urban areas.

Actually, we don't, or at least I don't. All I have seen is a few seconds of undercover video. I would like to know the truth and it could start with the Labour Party apparatchiks recognising there is great poverty in many seemingly rich, rural areas.

Apparently the whips were not put into place to defend Braverman - which suggests that No 10 is wavering on this.

Williamson is also being looked at regarding security risks. He resigned for being leaky.

Ah. I bow to your explanation thank you Casdon. I thought it was a derogatory remark. Apologies for my misunderstanding.

Loved the Sky interview with Lammy when he was challenged about his own, several, breaches of the code. What fury! Left speechless. Ouch.

GrannyGravy13

Forsythia

It says today that the government are asking people to house illegal migrants in their own homes until they are processed through the asylum system. So I am supposing all those on here in favour of them coming will be signing up to house these poor unfortunates in their own homes. Makes sense surely. Double win and putting your money where your mouths are.

Tell that to the woman in Kent who found an immigrant in her bedroom demanding transport and her phone?

So, let's think what that image that piece of information creates in your mind...

Do you see a big burly (probably tattooed and bearded) Albanian drug dealer bursting into the house of a poor defenceless woman late at night and demanding her car and her phone, probably with menaces?

Or do you see a scared teenager running away from police and traffickers, running into an open back door and asking a woman for help?

(Clue - the second one is true. www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/10/24/undetected-channel-migrant-asks-borrow-dover-villagers-phone/)

Forsythia

It says today that the government are asking people to house illegal migrants in their own homes until they are processed through the asylum system. So I am supposing all those on here in favour of them coming will be signing up to house these poor unfortunates in their own homes. Makes sense surely. Double win and putting your money where your mouths are.

Where does it say that the government are asking people to house "illegal migrants". Has the far-right lost any sense of logic (the answer is probably "yes").

Until you have processed someone you cannot know if they have done something illegal. Please stop insulting everyone else's intelligence with the "shock and awe" statements from the gutter press.

Urmstongran

I read the Daily Fail (!) as well as the Telegraph.

Today in the Mail:
“An investigation was launched by the Government Security Group, a little-publicised unit within the Cabinet Office. As the leak involved an issue of national security, it is understood that MI5 also had a role in the inquiry. The Mail understands that the investigation ultimately found no 'conclusive evidence' of who the leaker was.”

As an aside I have never described Labour supporters on here as ‘rabid’ no matter how very strongly they hold their views.
?

Rabid is the right word Urmstongran when it describes somebody who has or expresses a very extreme opinion about or interest in something. The are Labour supporters on Gransnet who also meet that description, but so far none of them are on this thread.

I think that what this whole Braverman affair shows is that Sunak has no control over his cabinet or policies. The far right have held the reins indirectly since Brexit, and Sunak is no liberal, even though he talks about helping the most vulnerable, we know that he began to withdraw money from the rural vulnerable and give it to the better off urban areas.

Urmstongran

As Denmark do, do you mean?

Germany put people in camps and exterminated them. Did we think we should be able to do such an obviously bad thing just because they did?

I appreciate you have, and are entitled to, your own bias but rational, critical thinking helps if you are determined to try and persuade others.

Forsythia

It says today that the government are asking people to house illegal migrants in their own homes until they are processed through the asylum system. So I am supposing all those on here in favour of them coming will be signing up to house these poor unfortunates in their own homes. Makes sense surely. Double win and putting your money where your mouths are.

Have you got a link to "it"?

Because the article I saw says something entirely different.

Forsythia

It says today that the government are asking people to house illegal migrants in their own homes until they are processed through the asylum system. So I am supposing all those on here in favour of them coming will be signing up to house these poor unfortunates in their own homes. Makes sense surely. Double win and putting your money where your mouths are.

Tell that to the woman in Kent who found an immigrant in her bedroom demanding transport and her phone?

Gosh. Forsythia! What if you got one of the very rare ‘bad ‘uns’ in your home? One of the ones with ties to nefarious activities.

Even as a non-Tory I hoped Sunak would get off to a good start and restore a bit of calm and grown-up government - along with many people I'm just sick and bloody tired of the problems within the Tory Party and the turmoil they've inflicted on us over the past years.

Was really looking to a bit of peace and quiet and for their internal problems not to be in our face every single day, just had enough of it!

I couldn't believe my eyes and ears when he re-appointed Braverman as home secretary - this will now rightly dominate the news. Sunak's enemies within his own party are already plotting, see Jake Berry's claims.

Geez, there is no end to this internecine Tory warfare.

Suella Braverman who is trying to stop them.

I now have an image of Braverman standing on the White Cliffs of Dover chucking tofu at the dinghies, shouting "go home, go home".

Roll on the day when we can have a proper government with a proper Home Secretary who can actually do something about the problems facing this country, instead of posing around like a pound shop Enoch Powell, posturing about flights to Rwanda.