Wage demands

Or put differently, who else would do the jobs they do for the wages they earn?

Interesting questions. I suspect that we would indeed miss them but also that they might find it pretty cold outside the public sector. I used to work for NHS and people moaned a lot about pay and conditions but precious few actually took the leap to leave.

Are they likely to get paid more for doing the same job in the private sector?

Smileless2012

Are they likely to get paid more for doing the same job in the private sector?

Yes, professional staff will work for agencies, they pay more and you can pick hours to suit you. I know a number of people who have done this already.

Will the potential 1.8 million find good jobs in the private sector though. I hesitated to leave as I'd accrued such good pension and annual leave credits - not often offered out with public services.

Aveline

Will the potential 1.8 million find good jobs in the private sector though. I hesitated to leave as I'd accrued such good pension and annual leave credits - not often offered out with public services.

The pension is much poorer than it was in our day though Aveline, and faced with not being able to pay their bills, staff in their 20s-40s are leaving to work for agencies in droves.

Well you might miss them if you wanted your passport renewed, or your application for benefits processed, or your power of attorney ratified. I'm not suggesting that these situations are resolved speedily now, but if half of them left, it's unlikely to improve suddenly. Of course, if you're OK with this...

I am in teacher support groups and there are thousands activity seeking to leave teaching to go into other jobs (supermarket work, shops, retraining) or going to work overseas (huge market for this).

If the government goes ahead with its plans to change the school year, even more will exit.

I see my DGS's teacher every day. She's 25 and is grey with exhaustion most of the time.

*actively

Not about wages for teachers. Conditions. Work load.

Private sector most likely does look more attractive to public sector workers, over the past year at least there has been a difference of some 4 percentage points between the growth of private and public sector wages; private sector having grown more.

www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/bulletins/averageweeklyearningsingreatbritain/latest

Of course, the prospects for neither sector look good, with the determination of this government to reduce the deficit by taking some £19billion out of the public sector, which will have a knock on effect on the private sector as depends to a significant extent on supplying the public sector with goods and services, and on spending by public sector employees.

Will we miss public sector employees who leave? Of course we will, as Chocolatelovinggran has pointed out. Their jobs are no less important than any private sector jobs.

I know a GP who is retiring at the age of 55 because of stress.

Her leaving may well cause more stress to her colleagues if they can't find a replacement.

I know you right in that we need a properly staffed public sector, they do help to make a better life for us all, but they create no wealth. Their salary/wages are paid for by the wealth creators in the private sector via the tax system. It is all about checks and balances

Of course they create no wealth they provide services to us all. Why is profit the only marker of value?
Their salary is paid by us all. If they weren’t here then society would break down completely. We can’t all be hedge fund millionaires, who else would sweep the streets,teach our children take care of us when we are ill, look after parents and grandparents, clear the rubbish? These are all vital in order for society
to function.

Gman

I know you right in that we need a properly staffed public sector, they do help to make a better life for us all, but they create no wealth. Their salary/wages are paid for by the wealth creators in the private sector via the tax system. It is all about checks and balances

You are missing something rather important here, Gman. you clearly didn't read my post.

You are looking at the public sector as if the money all goes into a big black hole and is never seen again. Which is nonsense.

Firstly, the public sector is completely supplied by the private sector because the state creates absolutely nothing at all. All sorts of private enterprises are sustained by state spending. Who builds the roads, the schools, the hospitals and any other sort of building commissioned by the state? And who provides the building materials?
Who provides the desks, the chairs, the stationery, the text books, the computers, the PE equipment etc. etc. for schools?
Who does the same for council offices, government offices, etc. etc?
Who provides the catering and cleaning services in hospitals?
Where do the public sector employees spend their wages?

Now think about this in relation to every single state funded enterprise

And what happens in just about every purchasing transaction that private companies and individuals make?

Taxation, that's what happens. And where do taxes go?

It's nonsense, complete and utter nonsense, to look at the public sector in any other way than as a revenue generator for private enterprise. It accounts for a lot of the wealth that you think the private sector 'creates'. The private sector generates much of its profit from people or institutions spending in the domestic economy. The only other mechanism for 'wealth creation' it has is exports. And they aren't doing a lot of that since we cut ourselves off from our largest, and easiest, market to sell into.

And taxation doesn't fund spending, either...

Gman

I know you right in that we need a properly staffed public sector, they do help to make a better life for us all, but they create no wealth. Their salary/wages are paid for by the wealth creators in the private sector via the tax system. It is all about checks and balances

It depends how you define wealth.

Wealth isn't just about tangible objects. It's also about creating services which every society needs.

They also educate and care for and provide the infrastructure for the more obvious wealth creators.

A series of tweets by economist Ann Pettifor touches on what I said in my post of 23.18 yesterday

As Keynes famously said: "You can't balance the nation's books by cutting the nation's income." Public sector pay has fallen by nearly 6%. Private sector pay down by 2.2% over the past year...no wonder there are vacancies in health and social services.
When the private sector is as timid and weak as a mouse - frightened of risking investment - then the roaring lion that is the public sector must step in...and fill the hole with public investment and risk-taking...
Biggest "hole" is the gaping empty space of green social & physical infrastructure investment - by both private & public sectors. Filling that "hole" imperative to avoid the current & imminent calamities (inc pandemics) associated with ecological breakdown...
And Jeremy Hunt can't fix the "the hole in the public finances"| by imitating George Osborne after 2010 - and digging the hole deeper using a shiny new 'austerity' spade...Especially given the collapse in private sector capital investment in R&D....
Only full, skilled well-paid and inflation-proofed employment and income - in both the private and public sectors - will generate the tax revenues needed to fix the "hole" in the public finances...

(not that I agree with her final statement about taxes..,but she confirms that state spending is essential)

twitter.com/AnnPettifor/status/1585969844935016448

Gman

I know you right in that we need a properly staffed public sector, they do help to make a better life for us all, but they create no wealth. Their salary/wages are paid for by the wealth creators in the private sector via the tax system. It is all about checks and balances

How on earth is creating no wealth relevant to people in caring jobs with whom we simply cannot live a quarter decent life without?
Weird.