Petition : *Update the Equality Act to make clear the characteristic “sex” is biological sex*

Galaxy

You do understand that gender neutral toilets already exist fleur, are you saying they are discriminatory. They are a third space open to everyone who wants to use them.

They certainly are NOT available everywhere!

GrannyGravy13

Fleurpepper

I can assure you that you will never ever know if my niece shares a toilet, or even a hospital room or ward with you. Never, ever. Neither will most nurses, nor doctors. the job was very well done. It would take a very intimate examination to find out.

In my opinion this is not about people like your niece Fleurpepper it is more to do with what appears to be a growing trend of some to have girly days and boy days.

If they think by putting on a dress and lippy they can use the female loo’s one day and when wearing a suit and tie use the mens, it rather mocks women.

Agreed 100% too.

GrannyGravy13

Galaxy

Oh and I believe sport should be segregated by sex, many sporting bodies are stating that is the case now. Again the risk of legal action when women were getting hurt was probably a factor in that shift.

Totally agree regarding sport.

Agreed 100%.

Caleo

DaisyAnne, a sound argument is self supporting , and much of what passes for evidence is common knowledge.

It's usually obvious to the reader whether or not the poster overrates their ability.

Arguments for self-support are themselves considered unsound. Add to that the fact that the arguments put forward on this discussion forum are dubious when it comes to the conclusions they reach and therefore intrinsically unsound, and I would disagree with the premise that these are sound arguments.

All you end up with is what you have here, a circular argument along the lines of "I think, therefore it is true, therefore it is sound."

Not something the sane would generally agree with. Cultish to say the least.

Doodledog

*VS*, as a matter of interest, where have you found access to the studies you mention? I ask as most of what is in the public domain is likely to be reports of the findings of studies, and the studies themselves only available to those with a subscription to academic journals, which are very expensive. If there is a way for everyone to access them it would be good if you could post it, to open it up for all.

I do have access to academic journals, but as with most research they are difficult to understand without a thorough grounding in the topic. Were yours psychology, biology or sociology? I'll have another look later if you let me know.

You may join an intersectional feminist group where there are women with that eduction and access if you choose to

Doing so without any respect of the education and intelligence of other women won't help you much

Fleurpepper

I can assure you that you will never ever know if my niece shares a toilet, or even a hospital room or ward with you. Never, ever. Neither will most nurses, nor doctors. the job was very well done. It would take a very intimate examination to find out.

In my opinion this is not about people like your niece Fleurpepper it is more to do with what appears to be a growing trend of some to have girly days and boy days.

If they think by putting on a dress and lippy they can use the female loo’s one day and when wearing a suit and tie use the mens, it rather mocks women.

You do understand that gender neutral toilets already exist fleur, are you saying they are discriminatory. They are a third space open to everyone who wants to use them.

Blatantly the main difference between my concerns and GC concerns is its foundations.

My concerns cause no active harm to either women or trans people and are shared by untersectional feminists (which include trans women)

However

The sheer amount of bullying I have received being called a TRA rather than what I am, an intersectional feminist is staggering.

The amount of derision towards what intersectional feminism is because it includes trans people is baffling

My belief is in equality and everyone feeling safe and included

But clearly in the absence of anyone who actually wants to put trans rights above women's rights any punchbag will do

And the sheer lack of self reflection by the GC on that issue, even the stance of someone like Galaxy who does not bully at all despite strength of conviction but has stated a preference to stay out of it.... Well ... doesn't really give me any confidence in the GC to achieve anything good at all

Galaxy

Oh and I believe sport should be segregated by sex, many sporting bodies are stating that is the case now. Again the risk of legal action when women were getting hurt was probably a factor in that shift.

Totally agree regarding sport.

I can assure you that you will never ever know if my niece shares a toilet, or even a hospital room or ward with you. Never, ever. Neither will most nurses, nor doctors. the job was very well done. It would take a very intimate examination to find out.

Oh and I believe sport should be segregated by sex, many sporting bodies are stating that is the case now. Again the risk of legal action when women were getting hurt was probably a factor in that shift.

More discrimination then! If that happened, they would still be targetted and at huge risk of being beaten up or raped, or worse. But it does not matter to you, I imagine- they are trans, so tough luck, hey.

VS, as a matter of interest, where have you found access to the studies you mention? I ask as most of what is in the public domain is likely to be reports of the findings of studies, and the studies themselves only available to those with a subscription to academic journals, which are very expensive. If there is a way for everyone to access them it would be good if you could post it, to open it up for all.

I do have access to academic journals, but as with most research they are difficult to understand without a thorough grounding in the topic. Were yours psychology, biology or sociology? I'll have another look later if you let me know.

So men are dangerous to transwomen but men are not dangerous to women is that what you are saying fleur?
I dont think women should be used as human shields for mens violence to other men who present differently.
I think there should be three spaces generally Thats whats happening now in relation to prisons for example following various incidents when men were in womens prisons. I support the idea of third spaces which are open to those who want to use them and spaces which are specifically single sex as specified in the equality act.

Oops sorry premature posting.

We are all entitled to separate secure spaces, which is why I shall continue to battle for female only spaces.

Perhaps the trans community should campaign for a third category of safe places?

VioletSky

Single sex spaces are protected by the equality where there is a proven need.

Where there is a proven need might be the best place to start with safeguarding and seperate secure spaces for everyone

On that we agree

I don't know if this is any help, but when I am on my other discussion groups,and when I am claiming something or other, I say " I'm not a (physicist , Biblical scholar, GP, etc) however I thought it may be the case that---"

Single sex spaces are protected by the equality where there is a proven need.

Where there is a proven need might be the best place to start with safeguarding and seperate secure spaces for everyone

call man

1. I am not part of any group

Galaxy

It depends if you view single sex spaces as discrimination I suppose.
They are acceptable because the equality act allows them.

Do you believe that a trans woman (whom you will call amn due to gametes), who has no gonads, no penis and pees sitting down, is feminine, wears female attire, etc- should go to a man's toilet? Do you have any idea what massive risk it would be to her- to be beaten up or raped?

DaisyAnne

GrannyGravy13

DaisyAnne

I didn't refute it GrannyGravy. I asked a simple question about your qualifications. I am not really interested in your opinion.

^Every now and then, you may come across someone who thinks they know more about a topic than others, when they actually have little to no background to support that belief. If so, you may have encountered the Dunning-Kruger effect.^

I am sorry if biological facts offend you.

Try reading Sir Robert Winston, perhaps you will trust his scientific background.

More of the gaslighting GrannyGravy? I did not say I was offended by biological facts, just as I did not "refute" anything. Any more of my posts you would like to twist?

I wouldn't accept any single source GrannyGravy. I don't even know if he has actually been working in this area. Unlike you, I am not trying force others to agree with any opinion I might hold.

I commented on the bullying attached to the group who keep bringing it up on GN. It appears you just cannot stop.

1. I am of part of any group

2. I have never and will never bully/gaslight anyone, anywhere

3. I have no problem with what anyone believes as long as they do not insist their beliefs are facts.

4. I am pro female only spaces as a mother and grandmother of girls.

In view of the many people who need single sex public toilets and changing rooms what may be ideal would be three sorts : a) men

b) women

c) men and women

You have to have a strong constitution for these threads.

Word twisting, assumptions and gaslighting with a huge dose of projection

GrannyGravy13

DaisyAnne

I didn't refute it GrannyGravy. I asked a simple question about your qualifications. I am not really interested in your opinion.

^Every now and then, you may come across someone who thinks they know more about a topic than others, when they actually have little to no background to support that belief. If so, you may have encountered the Dunning-Kruger effect.^

I am sorry if biological facts offend you.

Try reading Sir Robert Winston, perhaps you will trust his scientific background.

More of the gaslighting GrannyGravy? I did not say I was offended by biological facts, just as I did not "refute" anything. Any more of my posts you would like to twist?

I wouldn't accept any single source GrannyGravy. I don't even know if he has actually been working in this area. Unlike you, I am not trying force others to agree with any opinion I might hold.

I commented on the bullying attached to the group who keep bringing it up on GN. It appears you just cannot stop.