Petition : *Update the Equality Act to make clear the characteristic “sex” is biological sex*

Galaxy

Well yes I am sure you do believe that.

Evidence based sadly

Well yes I am sure you do believe that.

Galaxy

I will be honest and say that if you are using that wikipedia page as evidence I am completely unclear of your views.

My views are open minded to possibility that is the point.

My view is that more studies need to be done.

My view is that mistakes must be prevented.

My view is that gender dysphoria is real and needs to be treated appropriately.

My view is that trans women are women and i have spent enough time in intersectional feminist circles to know these people belong with women.

My view is that safeguarding needs to be in place to stop abusive men masquerading as trans

My view is that gender critical feminsim does more harm than good

My view is that people are being bullied and discriminated against due to gender critical ideology and a lot of those people are actually not trans but young people not conforming to gender norms masculine appearing women and butch lesbians

My view is that the gender critical are taking very little responsibility for the harm they are doing.

My view is that I have seen intersectional feminists call out abuse by trans activists on many occasions but I have seen 0 people here call out the recent abuse to a trans surgeon whipped up by a woman whose own evidence contradicts her story

But you know just another day on gransnet where we need 3 threads in a week about trans people and the genuine horrors of how women are treated across the globe isn't on the agenda

Signed

It depends if you view single sex spaces as discrimination I suppose.
They are acceptable because the equality act allows them.

Fleurpepper

GrannyGravy13

DaisyAnne

I didn't refute it GrannyGravy. I asked a simple question about your qualifications. I am not really interested in your opinion.

^Every now and then, you may come across someone who thinks they know more about a topic than others, when they actually have little to no background to support that belief. If so, you may have encountered the Dunning-Kruger effect.^

I am sorry if biological facts offend you.

Try reading Sir Robert Winston, perhaps you will trust his scientific background.

It is indeed a biological fact, this can't be disputed.

But it makes no difference to the concept of discrimination. Why is discrimination against certain groups, on biological facts, acceptable- and not others on other grounds?

I do not think it is discriminatory to keep female only spaces for females.

In fact it is discriminatory to not let females have their female own spaces.

GrannyGravy13

DaisyAnne

I didn't refute it GrannyGravy. I asked a simple question about your qualifications. I am not really interested in your opinion.

^Every now and then, you may come across someone who thinks they know more about a topic than others, when they actually have little to no background to support that belief. If so, you may have encountered the Dunning-Kruger effect.^

I am sorry if biological facts offend you.

Try reading Sir Robert Winston, perhaps you will trust his scientific background.

It is indeed a biological fact, this can't be disputed.

But it makes no difference to the concept of discrimination. Why is discrimination against certain groups, on biological facts, acceptable- and not others on other grounds?

I will be honest and say that if you are using that wikipedia page as evidence I am completely unclear of your views.

Saying it is fact doesn't make it so GrannyGravy

People have stated that it is fact that the earth is flat because they couldn't see the curve on the horizon but they are also wrong

Galaxy

If you pretend that is the case daisyanne. You will risk causing severe harm to transpeople.
VS I am astounded that wikipedia page is allowed to stand, it references all sorts that I would have thought would be considered transphobia. I sort of wonder if it has been tampered with. It references autogynephila (apologies if that's incorrect spelling) and other very worrying claims.
VS one of my greatest concerns is lack of evidence based research and medical care, that was one of the key concerns in the cass report for example.

I have in no way disagreed with the cass report Galaxy but your idea that it supports your views or your stance rather than mine is just plain wrong

DaisyAnne

I didn't refute it GrannyGravy. I asked a simple question about your qualifications. I am not really interested in your opinion.

^Every now and then, you may come across someone who thinks they know more about a topic than others, when they actually have little to no background to support that belief. If so, you may have encountered the Dunning-Kruger effect.^

I am sorry if biological facts offend you.

Try reading Sir Robert Winston, perhaps you will trust his scientific background.

DaisyAnne, a sound argument is self supporting , and much of what passes for evidence is common knowledge.

It's usually obvious to the reader whether or not the poster overrates their ability.

Stop equating criminals with those suffering genuine gender dysphoria, it's morally bankrupt.

If you pretend that is the case daisyanne. You will risk causing severe harm to transpeople.
VS I am astounded that wikipedia page is allowed to stand, it references all sorts that I would have thought would be considered transphobia. I sort of wonder if it has been tampered with. It references autogynephila (apologies if that's incorrect spelling) and other very worrying claims.
VS one of my greatest concerns is lack of evidence based research and medical care, that was one of the key concerns in the cass report for example.

Caleo

Rosie , someone on a hospital ward was physically attacked by another patient. The attacker's sex is a minor consideration compared with the hospital's neglect of patients' safety, and the hospital's inability to protect a vulnerable patient.

The buck stops at the hospital management as the management is well aware patients need to be protected at least as well as if they were in their own homes. It's common knowledge there are dangerous criminals walking about.

If a man with complete genitals who identified as a transwoman hadn't been housed on a female ward then he wouldn't have been able to rape a vulnerable woman. I don't consider his sex a minor consideration. Men who didn't identify as women weren't housed on that ward because it was a female ward. The hospital compounded the horror of the assault by insisting it couldn't have happened because there were no men on the ward.

I didn't refute it GrannyGravy. I asked a simple question about your qualifications. I am not really interested in your opinion.

Every now and then, you may come across someone who thinks they know more about a topic than others, when they actually have little to no background to support that belief. If so, you may have encountered the Dunning-Kruger effect.

DaisyAnne as much as people find it offensive, this is why your flat earth analogy works

If people do not believe the science, are uninterested in the future possibilities what we already know opens up and would much rather be driven by their own belief (which is protected under the equality act as they are so happy to inform us)... Well

That's the very definition of a flat earther and very appropriate

Occasionally there will be a scientist that only looks for evidence to back up their own belief... but that is how we ended up terrifying a whole generation into believing vaccines cause autism.

Thankfully I never believed that one and my autistic daughter was different from birth

DaisyAnne

GrannyGravy13

As far as I am aware it is not possible to change one’s chromosomes ergo you are always the sex you were born.

You can surgically remove body parts and have implants but not change your chromosomal makeup.

Just what are your qualifications in this field GrannyGravy?

What are your qualifications to refute my post?

I would be more than happy to rescind it if you can offer proof that I am wrong.

Rosie , someone on a hospital ward was physically attacked by another patient. The attacker's sex is a minor consideration compared with the hospital's neglect of patients' safety, and the hospital's inability to protect a vulnerable patient.

The buck stops at the hospital management as the management is well aware patients need to be protected at least as well as if they were in their own homes. It's common knowledge there are dangerous criminals walking about.

GrannyGravy13

As far as I am aware it is not possible to change one’s chromosomes ergo you are always the sex you were born.

You can surgically remove body parts and have implants but not change your chromosomal makeup.

Just what are your qualifications in this field GrannyGravy?

If current science is ignored, all we have to go on are opinions. Yes, new breakthroughs happen, and if one does, I may change my mind. It won't alter the fact that male-bodied people in female spaces pose a threat - not all of them, not even most, but the threat is still there from some.

The reason I don't want them in hospital wards or prison cells, or changing rooms with teenage girls, or in pub loos away from the bar is not because they are trans, but because they are men. IMO the insistence that it is ok for men to go anywhere they choose is not about the sensibilities of transpeople at all - it is about men reasserting dominance.

As, I'm sure, with most of us, all my adult life I have occasionally been aware that someone in the Ladies was trans, but as they were just touching up lipstick or something it didn't matter. As people on these threads keep saying, we are not phobic. As we also keep saying, it is these transwomen who are doing badly out of the No Debate mantra. Where once most people would carry on regardless, now women are nervous because of the numerous cases of assault that have happened since we were told that TWAW. Add in the sport issue and the way the language is being masculinised, more and more women are learning about the problems and becoming more vocal. So rather than listening to women, or finding ways to compromise, the TRAs* are blaming the media for 'spreading transphobia', assuming women are hysterical (yawn), and expecting ordinary women who express concern to come up with suitable solutions to insoluble problems or live with them remaining unsolved. No compromise at all from their side - not even any debate. Accept that TWAW or risk violence, doxxing, or whatever treatment they deem fit, and if you complain you are 'phobic' and deserving of more.

*Note that I use the term advisedly, and not to suggest that anyone on this thread would do any of the things I mentioned. (well, apart from assuming hysteria and phobia, anyway).

I've read many of the actual studies

And if they aren't enough for anyone to at the very least stop and think "we need more research and understanding in this area" then I simply don't understand you or your points.

GC feminists cite they only want to "help" people suffering from gender dysphoria, this is one way to prove it.

GC feminists state they only want to prevent mistakes being made that lead to a person being forced to detransition, and supporting the research that could lead to preventing mistakes is another way to prove it

Otherwise you are solely reliant on your own opinions and that's just your opinion or you are solely reliant on your beliefs and that is just your belief
so you really have nothing to stand on.

Nothing to stand on at all.

Galaxy

Do you operate like that in all areas daisy. Wait in case the science changes. So perhaps we shouldnt do anything about climate change after all we can't possibly know everything there is to know, and things may change. It's not people like me as you so rudely put it, it's the law. What you or I believe doesnt change the actual law relating to single sex spaces.

I certainly have no problem saying, "I don't know", Galaxy.

Climate change has a great deal of scientific exploration behind the conclusions reached. There has been research into gender incongruence, such as that VoiletSky flagged up. However, it is yet to be as conclusive as that on the climate.

I do think the issue is often a lack of imagination. You (and others) seem to be saying that what you cannot imagine, you cannot believe. Thankfully, scientists and those who are a little more critical in their thinking, will reason, question and test rather than thinking they know everything.

your true sex which isn't defined by sex organs you mean when DNA testing reveals whether the sample came from a male or female by looking at the chromosomes? The scientist who looks at the evidence not knowing the sex of the donator. Those chromosomes don't change.

It references Blanchard, do you know what he said about transpeople.