Petition : *Update the Equality Act to make clear the characteristic “sex” is biological sex*

Vs have you actually read it. You cant think it supports your case. Have you read the bit about brain changes and paraphilias.

Galaxy

If tomorrow I decided oh I was wrong, you can change sex, it would have no impact on the fact that it's not possible. It's dangerous in particular to transpeople to pretend that that is the case.

Try reading it, there are differences in brain structure and genes

It's not about changing sex it's about establishing your true sex which isn't defined by sex organs

As is proven by studies on those who were raised as girls because they had sex organ difformities and it was easier to create a vagina through surgery than a penis. Their internal gender did not change despite being raised as girls.

It's actually very interesting and you are an intelligent woman capable of understanding it... if you want to

VioletSky

Wikipedia helpfully correlates all the studies that have been done. Also makes an easy reference for finding and reading those studies

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_gender_incongruence#:~:text=Hormone%20use%20can%20also%20affect,the%20anabolic%20effects%20of%20testosterone.

I have more faith in science than belief

Did you miss this warning (!) at the top of the link?

This article relies excessively on references to primary sources.

No secondary or tertiary sources, no peer reviews, none of it reaches any standard of scientific authority at all.

Belief is what gender identity is all about. Science in which you say you have more faith says it's impossible to change sex. That some people experience gender dysphoria is not questioned, that they can change sex is.

As far as I am aware it is not possible to change one’s chromosomes ergo you are always the sex you were born.

You can surgically remove body parts and have implants but not change your chromosomal makeup.

DaisyAnne

Thank you VioletSky.

No problem

Having an open mind is such a wonderful thing

It's worth looking at "parenting" too

As studies have been done there as well

If tomorrow I decided oh I was wrong, you can change sex, it would have no impact on the fact that it's not possible. It's dangerous in particular to transpeople to pretend that that is the case.

Well that was catagoric evidence that belief means ignoring known science

Thank you VioletSky.

Do you operate like that in all areas daisy. Wait in case the science changes. So perhaps we shouldnt do anything about climate change after all we can't possibly know everything there is to know, and things may change. It's not people like me as you so rudely put it, it's the law. What you or I believe doesnt change the actual law relating to single sex spaces.

Just as most people believed the earth was flat, you consider today's knowledge about the sexes will always be the truth. You are saying that what we know now is, and always will be, the limit of our knowledge. I thank heavens people like you didn't get their way when we learned about things like the circulatory system, etc.

Professor Robert Winston appears to have a great deal of experience and expertise in this area, and has stated unequivocally that it is impossible to change sex. Sex is classified according to which part of sexual reproduction your body should (not always can) contribute. To change sex a person would have to lose their penis and testes and grow ovaries, a uterus, cervix, fallopian tubes, and vagina. Or alternatively lose all those female parts and grow a penis and testes. We work with the knowledge we have. Nobody in the history of humanity has changed sex, nobody has been revealed to be a third or more sex with a third or more gamete. Every human on this planet has resulted from the fusion of an ovum and a sperm. Would you prefer we discount this knowledge 'in case' it should ever need amending?

Clicking on "Biological Factors" will show what has been learned so far

Wikipedia helpfully correlates all the studies that have been done. Also makes an easy reference for finding and reading those studies

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_gender_incongruence#:~:text=Hormone%20use%20can%20also%20affect,the%20anabolic%20effects%20of%20testosterone.

I have more faith in science than belief

Galaxy

I view believing you can change sex in exactly the same way as I view the belief the earth is flat.
It is about how men behave unfortunately and the differences between offending rates between men and women. The law already exists with regard to single sex spaces, women are just trying to ensure that law is applied.

Just as most people believed the earth was flat, you consider today's knowledge about the sexes will always be the truth. You are saying that what we know now is, and always will be, the limit of our knowledge. I thank heavens people like you didn't get their way when we learned about things like the circulatory system, etc.

It may be as you say, but you (and I) know no more about this subject than the people who, when they looked at the view they could see, thought the earth was flat. Their simple opinions did not make them right.

If this is your area of knowledge, I will listen to what you say. However, all I have heard so far are opinions. For all the repetitions, bias and prejudice, no one has convinced me they know anything of any use.

I will not form an opinion (except about the people posting here) until more knowledge is available. I don't know the truth of it; neither do you.

Depends on the questionnaire as to whether or not someone's sex is relevant.

Baroness Nicholson, who spoke in the House of Lords about that incident, has said that she has received many letters about similar things happening.
It is not an uncommon thing.

Questionnaires have three tick boxes for sex. M, F , not saying.

Quite rightly so!

If someone, whatever sex, is behaving inappropriately in any ward they could be removed. are you unaware of the woman who was raped on an NHS female ward by a transwoman complete with functioning penis? The hospital lied and denied for a year that the rape had happened because "there were no men on that ward" despite CCTV and witnesses. So they added gaslighting to this woman's suffering. Accommodating a man's 'feelings' counted for more than a rape victim.

Mollygo's post was talking about her personal experiences so I don't agree that it's bias DaisyAnne and as for you not believing the half it, why not?

Of course anyone behaving inappropriately in a ward can be removed but Mollygo didn't say the incident happened on a ward, it happened in a female space.

^ If someone, whatever sex, is behaving inappropriately in any ward they could be removed.^

So, no problem with male transwomen being in male wards then.

Bearing in mind that to 'be a transwoman' a man only has to say he is one - and he may only have made that momentous decision on his way to the hospital.

I view believing you can change sex in exactly the same way as I view the belief the earth is flat.
It is about how men behave unfortunately and the differences between offending rates between men and women. The law already exists with regard to single sex spaces, women are just trying to ensure that law is applied.

Mollygo

DaisyAnne

Galaxy
Many women are impacted by men in single sex spaces. I am not impacted thankfully by many things that doesnt mean I don't care about them.

Rubish. Really?

Mine life has been impacted by TW in female spaces. How did I know he was a male? He made it quite obvious. ( Like most TIM , he still had a penis, just in case you weren’t sure about that.)
In addition, females, with whom I am closely acquainted , on a mental health ward, where some were already traumatised by males were told by nursing staff that the TIM walking round with his gown open at the front could not be removed as they would be accused of homophobia.

Then, my DGD was deprived of a medal at a gala because a cheating male was allowed to enter a girl’s race. Thankfully that has been disallowed.

I know, you and others have made it clear that because there aren’t what you see as enough of these events, the rights and needs of females are less important than your support of all trans.

This support, not of transpeople, which has not been an issue for me, or any of the posters I’ve read, but of the actions of TIM like those mentioned frequently on threads like this, means that many more females will be impacted.

At what level of impact on females by the ill-intentioned TIM, would you consider that their behaviour should be checked?

I'm not going to go through all the bias in that, but it is more about how all people behave.

I don't believe the half of it. If someone, whatever sex, is behaving inappropriately in any ward they could be removed.

This is a difficult issue - for everyone. But I am sure that, just as we got used to the earth not being flat and developed an understanding with appropriate new rules and laws that apply to everyone, we will with this.

People with dsds are still either Male or female not some magical third sex. There is quite a bit of information out there by people with a dsd which explains this.

People with DSDs are a minute percentage of the population, are nothing to do with trans ideology and don't affect the need for clear legislation to say 'sex' means biological sex not gender identity.
They are not an excuse for men to claim they are women - such as this man, in the news recently. Luckily for women prisoners, he hasn't been jailed with them.

www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/woman-who-hurled-pizza-skateboard-28389177

What about people who are born intersex with characteristics of both biological sexes?

22,002.