Petition : *Update the Equality Act to make clear the characteristic “sex” is biological sex*

He says it better than I could.

twitter.com/d4ds4g4inst/status/1593528889015504901?s=61&t=XnAzomeEYsOrh8ziGQs8Rw

I agree FarNorth.

Will a time come when ‘real’ woman will be a memory from the past ?

It’s like a Margaret Atwood book, dystopian. 😳

I’m glad I won’t be here to see it.

It's horrific.
Keeping quiet out of fear is letting bullies win.

stormystar👏🏻👏🏻
I think what’s happening around the trans issue is unbelievable too.Emperors new clothes syndrome, nobody wants to say anything against it all outright, out of fear.
Downright crazy a lot of it.

What kind of collective insanity what mad world do we now inhabit, where we sow seeds in a child’s brain that their precious body is somehow wrong, they are in the wrong body. But we say can be fixed, promoting as a positive, the idea that with a life time of powerful medication chemical castration, or going further becoming a eunuch, all will be well What kind of butchers devoid of medical ethics mutilates, chops healthy breasts off a young girl. What kind of society does not protect these evolving beautiful minds, instead fills their heads with hatred towards their beautiful bodies. I stand ashamed ashamed and incredulous of what is taking place and where it is all heading.

FarNorth

^As is proven by studies on those who were raised as girls because they had sex organ difformities and it was easier to create a vagina through surgery than a penis. Their internal gender did not change despite being raised as girls.^

Those people were boys, tho, and even if they had loved being 'girly' they would still be boys.

Most of the people claiming to be trans do not have a DSD condition, they are simply females or males who want to be the opposite sex (which isn't actually possible).

Yes.

As is proven by studies on those who were raised as girls because they had sex organ difformities and it was easier to create a vagina through surgery than a penis. Their internal gender did not change despite being raised as girls.

Those people were boys, tho, and even if they had loved being 'girly' they would still be boys.

Most of the people claiming to be trans do not have a DSD condition, they are simply females or males who want to be the opposite sex (which isn't actually possible).

Thank you FP.
So, not reversing to a previous state at all but changing to a new state.

It can't include a 'fully-functioning vagina' tho but a cosmetic version of a vagina, clitoris and labia surely.

I don't mean to be disrespectful to your friends or relatives but I think it's important to be accurate in what we are talking about.

VioletSky

Galaxy

If tomorrow I decided oh I was wrong, you can change sex, it would have no impact on the fact that it's not possible. It's dangerous in particular to transpeople to pretend that that is the case.

Try reading it, there are differences in brain structure and genes

It's not about changing sex it's about establishing your true sex which isn't defined by sex organs

As is proven by studies on those who were raised as girls because they had sex organ difformities and it was easier to create a vagina through surgery than a penis. Their internal gender did not change despite being raised as girls.

It's actually very interesting and you are an intelligent woman capable of understanding it... if you want to

What do you mean by 'true sex.'
When it comes to breeding I think biological sex is rather relevant.
By clarifying what words mean nobody is suggesting trans people should not be allowed to live their lives with respect and dignity.

VioletSky

Clicking on "Biological Factors" will show what has been learned so far

www.theguardian.com/science/2019/feb/24/meet-the-neuroscientist-shattering-the-myth-of-the-gendered-brain-gina-rippon

www.scientificamerican.com/article/most-of-us-combine-personality-traits-from-different-genders/

It means hormonal treatment, to grow breasts and stop hair, etc. It means a complicated operation, ablating the penis, and using it to create a fully functionning vagina and the creation of labia and clitoris.

FarNorth

Fleurpepper what do you mean by 'full reversal'?

I’m interested too. Fleurprepper.
Reversal means going back to a previous state.

Fleurpepper what do you mean by 'full reversal'?

Rosie51

I don't think I've ever looked at a butch lesbian and not been able to tell she was just that, a 'butch' presenting woman. Not all 'butch' presenting women are lesbians incidentally.

I’m sure you’re right Rosie51. When I look at any female, however she acts or appears or dresses, my first instinct has never been to think, is she lesbian?

Indeed. I have one trans friend, who has had full reversal, who could pass as 'butch lesbian' (horrible term).

I don't think I've ever looked at a butch lesbian and not been able to tell she was just that, a 'butch' presenting woman. Not all 'butch' presenting women are lesbians incidentally.

Fleurpepper

and in a world-wide small world context.

Molliygro- I do not have the answer. It is very complex. But for me, putting some humans in proportionately much greater danger, to protect others less at risk .. somehow is far too simplistic and dos not make sense. Especially as real sex, does not 'show' in RL. Many 'real' women look very masculine (butch lesbians- horrible term!), and trans women can look totally feminine.

All the more reason to have careful laws to make it about sex and not appearance or gender, surely?

And as it is very complex, all the more reason to wait until there are mutually acceptable answers than to force half-cocked 'solutions' onto women so that the trans lobby is mollified.

and in a world-wide small world context.

Molliygro- I do not have the answer. It is very complex. But for me, putting some humans in proportionately much greater danger, to protect others less at risk .. somehow is far too simplistic and dos not make sense. Especially as real sex, does not 'show' in RL. Many 'real' women look very masculine (butch lesbians- horrible term!), and trans women can look totally feminine.

This is a very good article on why clarity is needed in law relating to sex & gender, especially if the Scottish Parliament creates its own rules for gender recognition.

"For employers, service providers and legislators themselves it will become impossible to understand and use the words “man” and “woman” and concepts like “opposite-sex” and same-sex” if they mean something different for a person born in England, Wales or Northern Ireland to one born, or living, in Scotland."

www.scottishlegal.com/articles/amanda-jones-gender-recognition-bill-will-complicate-rather-than-clarify-the-law

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Why is 'sex' more important than 'gender' in some situations?

Here's why, explained by one woman who is disabled.

FP
So how would you protect females from those males/TW who would harm them, without giving permission for all males/TW to use female facilities.
You will have read, from many posters, about ‘butch lesbians’ such a derogatory term used to explain that in the poster’s opinion they ‘don’t look like females’.
You will have read that some posters put the onus on females to report or confront males/TW who are quite obviously male using female facilities.
I understand your concern for those TW who, in previous times may well have been using female facilities and may still be using them unnoticed now. Showing that concern, you are hopefully equally concerned about the safety if those born female.

So how would you protect females from those males/TW who would harm them, without giving permission for all males/TW to use female facilities.

I’m still puzzled.

Mollygo

I know DD. I was really asking FP because she says
“ their genuine fears of being attacked by men, and probably much more so than other women”
Whilst ignoring the attacks and harassment suffered by females by males as if her family and friends are more important than any other females.
If they would be mistaken for males /TW then that does not match what she has been saying, so I am puzzled.

Sometimes it is really hard to respond. Of course being concerned about those friends does not in any way, shape or form means that they are more important than other females- at all. And of course they cannot be mistaken for males- this is why if they have to use male toilets, they are put at massive risk of bullying, attacks, and rape. Nothing to be 'puzzled' about.

Thanks for the update FarNorth.

The petition is at 33,700.

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NHS Wales - Chief Nursing Officer Sue Tranka is happy to promote this :