What will happen to Conservatism and where will it go from here.

PS Daisy Anne, I just been looking it up and my explanation above is too simplistic. Sorry!

Daisy Anne, I think the Conservative party grew out of 18th-19th century political spectrum where the opposition were Whigs. Whigs, I understand, supported the new economic order that included profit at all costs to the individual and the old social class system . The latter worked well enough as compared with the rampant inequalities engendered by industrial revolution and urbanisation.

More recently, as human rights ameliorated capitalism, the Conservatives became the nastier party who support the capitalist status quo .

The ERG is the massive elephant in the room- and it is time we all knew who they are, who pulls their strings, and why- and what their real aims are.

If you have not seen it, please watch this excruciating interview, with Suella Braverman refusing to disclose list. It is painful to watch

youtu.be/Cbkog8tY5U8

MaizieD

We know that Suella Braverman used to chair it, Rees Mogg is a member and so is Steve Baker.

People post lists of 'members' on twitter from time to time; I might have bookmarked one, I'll see if I can find it for you, Blinko.

I think they morphed into the Covid deniers Research Group at one time...

The issue is, that lists are going round. We do know who some of them are, like Braverman, Rees-Mogg, Baker, etc. But what is totally unacceptable is that there is no OFFICIAL list which is available to other Parties, The Speaker, The Lords and to us the public.

The Tory Party is a moving compromise like all Parties and it will simply find a new compromise to remain electable. What that compromise will be depends on currents of opinion amongst the public, most of whom are manipulated by the press and media.

We know that Suella Braverman used to chair it, Rees Mogg is a member and so is Steve Baker.

People post lists of 'members' on twitter from time to time; I might have bookmarked one, I'll see if I can find it for you, Blinko.

I think they morphed into the Covid deniers Research Group at one time...

Do we know who is a member of the ERG? Do we know precisely what they stand for? I would like greater transparency regarding this powerful, yet unseen wing of the current government. As it stands, we seem to have a secret right wing cohort steering the ship. Undemocratic, surely.

Caroline Lucas said it so well last night on Question Time. The current Government is rotten to the core.

fb.watch/gJPDv5Hf0O/

I feel sick that the current voting system, which is totally undemocratic- does not allow us to vote for people we want to represent us- because our vote goes straight in the bin- time after time.

Sick too that anyone who does not support this Governement is automatically labelled as a extreme left wing nutter.

In France during the last 10 years the Republican party since
Sarkosy have gone slowly downhill untill they only polled
5% at the last Presidential election which gave Macron his second term in office with his Central party . Its unlikely they
will be making a comeback anytime soon. The Conservatives may find it difficult also once they start the downhill track.

I would have to say it would take a few bottles of something strong to see the current Democratic party in the USA as far left too.

Katie59

Politics seems to be polarizing just like the US, the right wing holding the Tories in their grip and very likely the left wing Labour. Unless there is a miracle Labour will win the next GE, that does not mean the ERG will go away, they will bide their time until the next opportunity. It doesnt take a large group to hold the leader to ransome

I don't know where your view of the current Labour Party comes from Katie but perhaps I can guess.

To me the current Labour party is mainly democratic socialist with a minority of radical left. We certainly hear from the extreme left (including on here), but they seem to have very little power within this current iteration of Labour.

The huge worry, is very Conservatism will mute into alt right.

And as Labour turns away from hard left, we will probably end up with some centre left coalition- which is the very best thing we can hope for.

Katie59

Politics seems to be polarizing just like the US, the right wing holding the Tories in their grip and very likely the left wing Labour. Unless there is a miracle Labour will win the next GE, that does not mean the ERG will go away, they will bide their time until the next opportunity. It doesnt take a large group to hold the leader to ransome

Labour is doing it's best to disassociate itself from the 'left wing'. Though as people seem to differ wildly over what they think constitutes 'left wing' it's hard to tell just where it is at the moment.

I assume by your use of the word 'miracle', Katie59, that you don't really want to see a Labour party in power?

I think that, unless the tories come up with a radical change of plan for the economy. they will be wiped out at the next GE and a great many of the ERG group will lose their seats.

I hope that Labour will carry out their promise to reform the House of Lords and get rid of many of Johnson's corrupt crony appointments.

It is utterly ridiculous that there are more peers in parliament than there are MPs. The Labour party's reform of the Lords in the 1990s was meant to reduce the size of the HoL. The rapid turnover of tory PMs in the last 6 years has also meant that they've been able to pack the Lords with tory supporters and increase its size.

Politics seems to be polarizing just like the US, the right wing holding the Tories in their grip and very likely the left wing Labour. Unless there is a miracle Labour will win the next GE, that does not mean the ERG will go away, they will bide their time until the next opportunity. It doesnt take a large group to hold the leader to ransome

Ilovecheese

The way I see it the Conservatives will be in the wilderness for a few years and Keir Starmer's party will take their place.

Several of the more moderate Conservative MPs will have defected to Keir Starmer's party and will be promoted to Government positions. (Christian Wakeford who crossed the floor from the Tories to Labour has already been appointed a Labour whip, a sign of things to come)

My personal hope is that a new left leaning party will take the place of Keir Starmer's party by being an opposition to the current culture of austerity and attempt to make the country a fairer, and therefore more prosperous country for all its citizens.

You mean the Labour Party will be in power Ilovecheese. It’s not Keir Starmer’s party, he’s the leader because the membership voted for him. I too hope the left will form their own party, but it won’t be the Labour Party - and they won’t be elected in my opinion, because whether we like it or not, the electorate is not left leaning enough to elect them.

The way I see it the Conservatives will be in the wilderness for a few years and Keir Starmer's party will take their place.

Several of the more moderate Conservative MPs will have defected to Keir Starmer's party and will be promoted to Government positions. (Christian Wakeford who crossed the floor from the Tories to Labour has already been appointed a Labour whip, a sign of things to come)

My personal hope is that a new left leaning party will take the place of Keir Starmer's party by being an opposition to the current culture of austerity and attempt to make the country a fairer, and therefore more prosperous country for all its citizens.

We have to hope that the Republicans do not gain control. If they do the likelihood is America's sending arms to Ukraine will stop. Many of them admire Putin and apparently, had Trump still been president, Putin would not have invaded Ukraine.

In Brazil supporters of Bolsonaro still believe that the election was rigged.

The president of Israel Isaac Herzog has said “the whole world is worried” about the far-right views of Itamar Ben-Gvir, who appears set to become a minister in Benjamin Netanyahu’s new coalition government.

The extreme right seems to be spreading the world over. In the UK it behoves those voters where the current MP is a member of the ERG to ensure that person is voted out at the next election. Unfortunately it may be difficult to identify them all.

NotSpaghetti

Wyllow3 - the good news is that so far the mid-terms have been less disastrous than anticipated and the "deniers" loyal to Trump have had few wins. I'm hoping the Trump (and Johnson) fake information is at last being seen trough. I'm hoping that the balance is tipping slightly more towards reality. I suppose I'm more optimistic than I was two days ago.

Yes, agree, it's a turn out for sanity never mind political differences. Nevertheless the democrats will find their hands tied just as the last years of the Obama regime because of losses in the Houses.

NotSpaghetti

Wyllow3 - the good news is that so far the mid-terms have been less disastrous than anticipated and the "deniers" loyal to Trump have had few wins. I'm hoping the Trump (and Johnson) fake information is at last being seen trough. I'm hoping that the balance is tipping slightly more towards reality. I suppose I'm more optimistic than I was two days ago.

That has felt like a small move back towards democracy NotSpaghetti but then you hear of journalists here being arrested and held when covering a demonstration. That made my heart sink

I do wonder if the move to extremes is more to do with changes in our social structure than our traditional views of politics. Does increased education lead people to think they "know" more than our parents and grandparents thought they did? I include the politicians themselves in that thought.

Not sure about whether the Conservatives will survive but the difference I notice from my childhood half a century ago to now is that there is much more of a vox populi and, whilst it is great that people have a voice, sometimes the overarching decision making is lost in the detail of everyone having their say. Also, what of the future of the planet. It is all very well a society pushing for ever better and upward mobility for its people, but by the very laws of nature, it is unsustainable.

They’ve become the Brexit Party. When that appeal crumbles, this current bunch haven’t much left.

Agreed Vegansrock. And I’ve noticed that the ‘success’ of Brexit is being challenged far more openly now, so the appeal is starting to crumble. Commentators, analysts and media are now questioning its efficacy (or lack of) and the former Brexiteer chants of ‘remoaner’ are loosing their impact. It’s clear for all to see that Brexit isn’t working; it has put the UK at an economic disadvantage; it was based on lies. Hopefully it will be the ‘nail in the coffin’ of the Tory party - but at what expense to the country!

I’m not sure that it’s ‘they’ as in all Tory MPs. There’s a growing divide in the party for sure and a right wing dominance currently, but there are still many old school Tories there. The next few years will be very interesting, but I don’t think the majority of the country will back a right wing agenda again, so if they don’t change they will be in the wilderness.

vegansrock

They’ve become the Brexit Party. When that appeal crumbles, this current bunch haven’t much left.

I think it's more than Brexit. They've replaced UKIP.

Wyllow3 - the good news is that so far the mid-terms have been less disastrous than anticipated and the "deniers" loyal to Trump have had few wins. I'm hoping the Trump (and Johnson) fake information is at last being seen trough. I'm hoping that the balance is tipping slightly more towards reality. I suppose I'm more optimistic than I was two days ago.