Nurses Strike -Do you support? What will it look like?

growstuff

The Nightingale Pledge has been discussed before on GN. I've also asked my sisters (both retired nurses) about it. It's not routinely used in the UK. Are you American?

Not American. We were never required to recite or take the Nightingale Pledge here in the UK however, it was often referenced by tutors during training as an example of our duty of care upheld worldwide.

My family member who is a nurse tells me that Trusts are far more competitive than supportive of each other. I find that both disappointing and worrying.

I am very much in support of nurses. They have gone above and beyond in recent years and they should not be having to use food banks. On a rather more selfish note I hope my hospital appointments are not affected.

Kim19

My family member who is a nurse tells me that Trusts are far more competitive than supportive of each other. I find that both disappointing and worrying.

Isn't that because the tories have tried to shape the NHS on a 'business units' model, with Trusts competing for resources?

(*and don't even get me started on the millions wasted on the PPE debacle during lockdown*).

Billions. 36.3 Billion pounds "squandered" due to fraud and wastage, New Statesman 27.04.22 publication. Overpriced and faulty PPE (I've read elsewhere it's estimated at 18 Billion wasted), fraudulent claims on the Government schemes set up.

I support the Nurses 100% and if they aren't being taken seriously by those who make the decisions on such things, then what alternative is left open to them? Ward Nurses, ER nurses, they work unsociable hours. Covid 19 must have been so demoralising, the stress and strains ... I know I'm not the only person here thinking this Government are running the NHS down to breaking point in order to bring the "solution" of private healthcare into force.

Just a small observation of my own, I attended my Rheumatology clinic last week (appointment every 6 months); woman came in with donut and coffee. Five minutes later Clinic Nurse asked her to come and be weighed, the usual checks. Woman said "Can I have my donut first"? Nurse said - it means you're probably going to have to wait until I'm free again .... Deep irritated sigh from donut woman, rolling her eyes at the Clinic Nurse ...
Same clinic, few minutes later, same Clinic Nurse was asked by another patient - a very nicely dressed lady in her 70's - how much longer she'd have to wait. Clinic Nurse went to check with the Doctor, told her there were two people in front of her. Well, did she kick off, out of her seat, over to the Reception desk, raising her voice about how ridiculous it all was, fussed about, pointing fingers, just falling short of stamping her feet ... Got seen next - in front of me! (my appointment was 11.10am, got seen at 11.50am). She gave both the Reception and Clinic Nurse another piece of her mind when she left, saying something rude under her breath as she walked out (but was Oh So Lovely to the Doctor -).

Whilst not in favour of strike action that could impact badly on lives, I do understand that nurses have been driven to this point. They are highly valued but grossly underpaid.
My hope is that a reasonable settlement can be made in good time with a locked in guarantee of inflation proof annual rises.
I just hope this government gives thought to our emergency services across the board.

Kalu

growstuff

The Nightingale Pledge has been discussed before on GN. I've also asked my sisters (both retired nurses) about it. It's not routinely used in the UK. Are you American?

Not American. We were never required to recite or take the Nightingale Pledge here in the UK however, it was often referenced by tutors during training as an example of our duty of care upheld worldwide.

Thanks for answering. It's rarely used outside the United States.

As with the rail strike it isn’t just about money. It’s as much about working conditions and patient safety. And, yes, I do support them. A friend of my daughters, the most committed, dedicated nurse you could imagine has left the NHS. When things like that happen you know there’s a problem.

growstuff

Wyllow I don't see that amalgamating trusts would reduce the need for management either.

It's complicating it, growstuff, tbh. In an ideal world its a good idea, but all it means is time taken away from organising decent patient care.

Kim19

My family member who is a nurse tells me that Trusts are far more competitive than supportive of each other. I find that both disappointing and worrying.

kim19

They have been set against each other in trying to bid for very limited resources. Is it surprising?

It also means they try to meet "performance" targets which in practice means discharging patients before they are necessarily ready, for its NEW referrals that bring the cash in.

This was all very well when there were adequate resources, but nowadays if a patient is discharged and then has to be -re-referred it means a long wait for that referral, including of course managing to get to see a GP for that referral.

(Kim - a hospital nurse wouldn't necessarily know the details I've just revealed above on funding and referral patterns - its because I was a governor, asked awkward questions, and detailed conversation with a GP I know: they are in the thick of it and she is in addition on the political side and knows the background.)

The failure of the Tory government to ensure that salaries kept up reasonably with inflation over their 12 year tenure - many have had no pay rise since the Tories took office - meant that the pressure has built up and up and the dam is finally bursting.

It was inevitable.

Very short sighted in the governments part.

Badly managed.

Inflation has been very low though for most of those years, Whitewavemark2.

I think Nurses and Drs, particularly at the lower end of the scale should have a triple lock plan with an agreement not to strike over pay.

I think that is a good idea icanhandthemback. I do support the strike. I also think that the Government should have given them, and other NHS staff a large pay rise immediately after the first wave of covid, when the whole country was on their side and understood the debt of gratitude that we owe them. Now, after time has gone by, we are taking them for granted gain, talking about "vocation" etc. I even heard a woman on Any Answers a few weeks ago saying that nurses did not need a payrise because hospitals were organising food banks for them!

The real time reduction in NHS staff salaries since the Tories came into power.

www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/resource/chart-of-the-week-real-terms-nhs-staff-pay-from-2010-to-2020

Casdon

Before we get diverted down a manager bashing route, here is the accurate information about relative costs, numbers etc.
www.kingsfund.org.uk/audio-video/key-facts-figures-nhs
To be clear, long term underfunding of the NHS is the issue not over management, that’s just a lazy political excuse for the long term neglect of the NHS by the government - it’s a deliberate political strategy.

Completely agree.
This crisis has been building over the last 12 years and we are now in the perfect storm. Unfortunately nurses will be just the start and I support them 100%.

I worked all my professional life in some branch of nursing and never came across the Nightingale Pledge. Nurses aren’t Florence Nightingales, or Angels, they are professional people doing a very demanding job, which many wouldn’t do, in often less than optimum conditions, and for unprofessional pay.

icanhandthemback

Inflation has been very low though for most of those years, Whitewavemark2.

I think Nurses and Drs, particularly at the lower end of the scale should have a triple lock plan with an agreement not to strike over pay.

Yes of course averaging about 2% - but that means a year on year pay cut for every year that public sector workers have had no pay rise.

That has been managed by the workers by cutting back a bit every year. However now that is becoming impossible without cutting out essentials.

I can give an example of my DS. He is a highly skilled environmental scientist but has not received a rise in his salary for the entire Tory government tenure. He loves his job, in particular has a love for the natural environment that consumes him, so I suspect it is the primary reason for him remaining working for the government. However, many(most) of his colleagues, whom he manages have left to go to much more lucrative jobs and it is becoming more and more difficult to recruit.

They have been balloted to strike like so many of the other public service sector workers.

The government has been incredibly shortsighted, or what I suspect is most likely a deliberate policy to reduce the state sector to an absolute minimum.

Wyllow3

growstuff

Wyllow I don't see that amalgamating trusts would reduce the need for management either.

It's complicating it, growstuff, tbh. In an ideal world its a good idea, but all it means is time taken away from organising decent patient care.

I'm not sure that it is such a good idea. Bigger trusts would just mean that senior management would be more remote from the people at the bottom of the hierarchy and the management teams would have to be bigger. The advantage of smaller trusts is that they should be able to provide a service more appropriate to local needs and can liaise more easily with other healthcare providers in a given location.

Problems do exist when, for example, trusts don't have compatible IT and recording systems. For example, Royal Papworth Hospital is on the same campus as Addenbrooke's Hospital in Cambridge, but they have different IT systems. Where I live pre-natal care is provided by a team of midwives different from the hospital where most mothers give birth and records aren't always shared.

Trusts can and do share resources at times. I know that consultants sometimes work for different trusts and trusts will refer to other trusts when they don't have specialised equipment. They all benefit from centralised buying, but it's up to the individual trusts to keep their stocks up.

And don't get me started on the new Integrated Care Systems, which have amalgamated Clinical Commissioning Groups! They cover a huge area and if you live on the edge of one (as I do), it's easy to wonder if the management even knows you exist.

My daughter is a highly trained mental health nurse but is struggling at present with the amount of responsibility within her role. Emergency on call, training new staff, responsibility for advising care homes along with her large case load. One thing which would help in addition to more money would be the relaxation of unrealistic government targets. These have increased along with the extra stresses related to Covid.

I was a nurse for 40 some years and fully support the nurses,it usually happens that when a rise is given staff parking goes up !!

Why is it the people who saw us through lockdown by carrying on working who are now having to strike for better pay? They risked (and sometimes lost) their lives by keeping going out to work. Nurses, teachers, rail workers. They all ran risks that most of us didn't have to.

My family members who are teachers have recently been balloted for strike action over pay. I don't know how they voted, but I do know that they would have been much keener to vote for strikes over conditions - more teaching assistants and better provision for children who have (or cause) problems, for example. Perhaps some of the nurses would rather have better conditions, more staff and protection from abusive patients.

Anyway, I can see why they are totally fed up and I support them.

I support the medical profession 100%, especially the nurses. I’m hoping their action will not affect my next cancer scan and appointment. IMO, they have been treated very poorly. I’d like to see proper pay bands and each authority running it’s own nurse bank. I know Newcastle does just that. No more paying 3x as much for bank nurses. Just the proper pay for the job.

sodapop

My daughter is a highly trained mental health nurse but is struggling at present with the amount of responsibility within her role. Emergency on call, training new staff, responsibility for advising care homes along with her large case load. One thing which would help in addition to more money would be the relaxation of unrealistic government targets. These have increased along with the extra stresses related to Covid.

sodapop I think the multiple levels of responsibility required are so off-putting because people just think 'I couldn't do all that' which obviously results in staff shortages. No-one will want to do a job which looks so difficult and demanding. People need a job which is within their capabilities and it seems as though so many jobs are beyond this.

I certainly don't want to 'manager bash'. However, my relative who I mentioned above has been here today. She said her NHS bosses hire venues for meetings and have buffets costing thousands of pounds several times a year. She attends as part of her job. She said it's unbelievable what she sees.

Unless they get all the other Health care professional to go on Strike with them, I can't see any change.

All Graduates regardless of profession are paid the same.. Come in as Band 5 that's all qualified Nurses , Radiographers, All the specialist Lab staff, my Profession Cardiac Physiologist we all have the same T&Cs and pay scales. You can not give to one group and not the other.
To progress you do need further professional exam and higher bands need a minimum of MSc, or PhD.

I clearly remember having a letter from the Union about 15 years ago, saying there are a serious number of staff who will be taking thier pension due to the planned changes over the next 12 years.
There will be a long term shortage of staff until others come through the process.
I remember clearly as I thought that's me. I like many, many others took my pension.

In our Dept there was 6 of us, we all went early before our state pensions started, a couple only in thier mid 50's.

All of us are on the Hospital Bank .. (not agency) I still cover clinics 2 days a week.
I plus 2 others left as Band 8's with all the qualifications to match that level.