Nurses Strike -Do you support? What will it look like?

growstuff its the ICSystems I was referring to as the additional management they are having to take on. Went to a meeting about them.

Biggest problem - they have to have enough care to integrate.

Kate194. Name and shame them. It's not pertinent to the O/P which asks about nurses pay and strike.

It certainly does not happen in the Trust I was a Governor on: as I have seen the years financials.

I don't doubt your friend has witnessed what she described and its clearly not OK but its not going to pay many nurses, is it, in the areas it happens. (where, to be exact?)

Certainly to suggest it's a reason NOT to support the nurses it seems to me a "look the other way" DM blame game, as the real target are successive governments.

Visgir1

Unless they get all the other Health care professional to go on Strike with them, I can't see any change.

All Graduates regardless of profession are paid the same.. Come in as Band 5 that's all qualified Nurses , Radiographers, All the specialist Lab staff, my Profession Cardiac Physiologist we all have the same T&Cs and pay scales. You can not give to one group and not the other.
To progress you do need further professional exam and higher bands need a minimum of MSc, or PhD.

I clearly remember having a letter from the Union about 15 years ago, saying there are a serious number of staff who will be taking thier pension due to the planned changes over the next 12 years.
There will be a long term shortage of staff until others come through the process.
I remember clearly as I thought that's me. I like many, many others took my pension.

In our Dept there was 6 of us, we all went early before our state pensions started, a couple only in thier mid 50's.

All of us are on the Hospital Bank .. (not agency) I still cover clinics 2 days a week.
I plus 2 others left as Band 8's with all the qualifications to match that level.

The other unions are all balloting now, or already have, it will be virtually the whole of the NHS, not just nurses.

I support a pay rise for nurses. Many experienced nurses are leaving the profession as they can get better pay and conditions elsewhere.
My DD is a nurse and says due to staff shortages they sometimes can't run essential clinics.
She is always tired as the work is very demanding and I can't blame them for looking for better prospects and leaving nursing.

Wyllow NHS management really need to get a grip of digitalisation and devise systems which will serve patients and staff, not become a burden. My local hospital introduced a new system a few years ago and I heard it was a nightmare for the first few months, especially when it crashed (!). However, my recent experience has shown me that it seems to be working now and really has had positive effects on communication and the care I've received. I hate to think how much it's all cost, but the outcome has been positive. I know that not all trusts have such advanced systems.

GP practices are all supposed to be digitised this month. At the moment, some are, but others (like mine) are resisting. I know some people don't like to know what's wrong with them (and they can opt out), but it will be hugely advantageous to those people who want more knowledge and control over their own health.

I'm not sure I understand "Biggest problem - they have to have enough care to integrate."

The biggest problem in my area is that two CCGs have amalgamated, but it's been more like a take-over by the bigger CCG. The HQ is in the other CCG area from mine, as are the default hospitals. I always did live on the edge of the CCG, so all the newsletters and initiatives are about places miles from where I live. We have one of the six hospitals in the country which actually had plans and funding for a rebuild (out of the 40 new hospitals!), but it's now been announced that work won't start for at least five years. Meanwhile, hospitals in the "other" CCG are being upgraded.

IMO the government needs to stop tinkering with organisational change and start looking at recruitment and retention and ways of improving patient care on the ground.

growstuff

I'm not sure I understand "Biggest problem - they have to have enough care to integrate."

The biggest problem in my area is that two CCGs have amalgamated, but it's been more like a take-over by the bigger CCG. The HQ is in the other CCG area from mine, as are the default hospitals. I always did live on the edge of the CCG, so all the newsletters and initiatives are about places miles from where I live. We have one of the six hospitals in the country which actually had plans and funding for a rebuild (out of the 40 new hospitals!), but it's now been announced that work won't start for at least five years. Meanwhile, hospitals in the "other" CCG are being upgraded.

Being sarcastic, growstuff. As in, "integrating" care where there isnt ecare enough in each area and spending time talking about it just frustrates people on the ground like the GP at our meeting where the national NHS person was waxing enthusiastic, for her just a talking shop.

BTW, as regards records, even I was shocked at the weekend "I" headlines.
"Cyber attack hits patient care as NHS records are left in 'chaos'.

Since August, 12 Mental Heath Trusts cannot properly keep or use patient records (Mental Health records are and have always been separate from the usual NHS system). Its affecting tens of thousands of patients.
inews.co.uk/news/nhs-cyber-attack-lives-risk-mental-health-care-systems-chaos-three-months-1947561

I work in NHS in a hospital were the roof is held up by over 2000 props. Short staffed, underplayed. Claps don't pay our bills. The government need to put their commitment to us.

Stressedok

I work in NHS in a hospital were the roof is held up by over 2000 props. Short staffed, underplayed. Claps don't pay our bills. The government need to put their commitment to us.

Let me guess Kings Lynn

Wyllow3

growstuff

I'm not sure I understand "Biggest problem - they have to have enough care to integrate."

The biggest problem in my area is that two CCGs have amalgamated, but it's been more like a take-over by the bigger CCG. The HQ is in the other CCG area from mine, as are the default hospitals. I always did live on the edge of the CCG, so all the newsletters and initiatives are about places miles from where I live. We have one of the six hospitals in the country which actually had plans and funding for a rebuild (out of the 40 new hospitals!), but it's now been announced that work won't start for at least five years. Meanwhile, hospitals in the "other" CCG are being upgraded.

Being sarcastic, growstuff. As in, "integrating" care where there isnt ecare enough in each area and spending time talking about it just frustrates people on the ground like the GP at our meeting where the national NHS person was waxing enthusiastic, for her just a talking shop.

BTW, as regards records, even I was shocked at the weekend "I" headlines.
"Cyber attack hits patient care as NHS records are left in 'chaos'.

Since August, 12 Mental Heath Trusts cannot properly keep or use patient records (Mental Health records are and have always been separate from the usual NHS system). Its affecting tens of thousands of patients.
inews.co.uk/news/nhs-cyber-attack-lives-risk-mental-health-care-systems-chaos-three-months-1947561

Apart from the clear benefits to the patient, one of the benefits of integrating care for the professionals is that it reduces duplication of assessments and care though Wyllow, so perhaps it wasn’t explained to the GP in clear enough terms. Not having enough care in total makes it even more important that duplication is reduced. We have integrated community care systems in Wales, and they do work well, the GPS are supportive too.

The BBC 6 o’clock news has just announced that several other workers unions in the public sector are looking to strike. What Sunak and Hunt haven’t realised is that raising taxes when normal working people are facing huge increases in their energy bills (despite the government payments, which are only until April) and other costs of living, is the last straw.

No other European country is penalising its people to pay off the Covid debt in a hurry. Austerity when people’s financial backs are against the wall is only going to stir up strikes for more pay. This fiscal insanity is flushing our country down the proverbial toilet.

Urmstongran - well said!

Less than half of the nurses want to strike (in total). But apparently the counting was done per hospital Trust. Different way of counting the votes up! Scotland and Wales’ hospitals voted more to strike. England less so.

This, from today’s Telegraph:

“Legally, a vote in favour of strikes requires a response from just over half of those polled.

But, the Royal College of Nursing (RCN) used a “disaggregated” ballot, meaning that instead of requiring the majority of RCN members across the UK to vote, and a majority to back the strikes, every hospital was counted separately. While all NHS organisations in Scotland and Northern Ireland backed strikes, along with all bar one in Wales, in England, 102 of 215 NHS acute trusts voted to back strikes, the data showed. In the Midlands, nurses at just one in five hospitals backed strikes, with a figure of less than one in three in London.”

Hmm.

Ladyleftfieldlover

Wasn’t nursing seen as a vocation so decent salaries were never offered or expected?

As a retired nurse I would say that the idea of it being a ' vocation ' meant nurses were exploited for a very long time. It was different in the days when career nurses ( ward sisters, matrons) were unmarried, lived in hospital accommodation and dedicated their lives to the profession. I'm afraid vocation doesn't pay the bills. Nurses have taken over a lot of procedures which doctors would have done in the past but that's not reflected in their salaries.

On Twitter.

Sir Keir Starmer has refused to commit to an above inflation payrise for nurses, after it was announced tens of thousands would go on strike over a wage dispute with the government.

He told @AnushkaAsthana he didn't "want to make promises I can't keep".

Starmer 'empathises' with striking nurses but won't commit to inflation-busting payrise

What. Is. The. Point. In. The. Labour. Party?

actionnetwork.org/petitions/10-broken-pledges

Thanks for explaining Wyllow.

Yes What is the point??
Just when we need a strong opposition there isn’t one.

Casdon The problem with the new "Integrated Care" systems in England is that they are geographically massive and aren't serving the needs of local communities. As far as I can see, the reorganisation has just been about tinkering with systems and hierarchies. There doesn't appear to be any better integration - it's just a word. They still have to deal with a number of different trusts, which don't always match the Integrated Care Systems, which still have to spend money on commissioning.

The. Point.Is.To.Establish.The.True.Economic.Position. Once.In.Power.Before.Shooting.Your.Mouth.Off.Making.Promises.You.Can’t.Keep.When.In.Opposition.

Grany. It’s called prudent, he’d be a fool to commit to a 17.5% pay rise with no guarantee it was affordable, wouldn’t he?

Agreed Casdon. He'd be handing the Conservatives ammunition to attack Labour.

growstuff

Casdon The problem with the new "Integrated Care" systems in England is that they are geographically massive and aren't serving the needs of local communities. As far as I can see, the reorganisation has just been about tinkering with systems and hierarchies. There doesn't appear to be any better integration - it's just a word. They still have to deal with a number of different trusts, which don't always match the Integrated Care Systems, which still have to spend money on commissioning.

It can work growstuff, but it does require wholesale buy in from all the partners, it sounds like that’s where it’s struggling in England - another victim of the false competitive market for the NHS.
Our Health Boards in Wales are geographical, largely coterminous with Local Authorities, and encompass all services including the acute hospitals, which makes it feasible.there are still loads of issues related to underfunding, and waiting lists are the biggest consequence of that, but our integrated community services do work pretty well and economically - they could do even more if there was more funding because the will is there. Our Health Boards are 350-600,000 and the integrated teams operate within that based on conurbations of about 50,000 so there will be a number in each Health Board area, not one massive team.

The ICS is following American insurance based model, the Tory government or Labour won't the tell the public the truth.

The Beven model was far cheaper and the best.

Gingerrice

Not sure where these figures are from Blondiescot - I am an agency nurse with 40 years experience working throughout pandemic in NHS hospitals for approx £17 hour weekday( band 5) - from this I have to pay parking, uniform, mandatory training, yearlyDBS check etc . Are NHS nurses only paid £6 an hour if we are paid 3 X more ???

As most people are aware, what you as an agency nurse, or any other kind of employee is paid, is not the same as the cost to the NHS trust. Agencies make a profit.

vegansrock

Maybe they could use the £350m a week we are saving by leaving the EU😂

Or the millions used to subsidise the restaurants in the HoC perhaps?

The starting salary for a newly qualified nurse is £29, 393 per annum.
Obviously the more experience and senior position the higher the salary.
This is not at all a poor salary, I do not think they should be striking.
As to how it will affect us all, it will make the backlog since the pandemic even longer I suppose.