Scarf in Suffragette colours not allowed in Scottish Parliament.

VioletSky

Is the first rule of gransnet, we don't talk about gransnet? Lol

Is Lol when no one laughs, or mentioning invisible share buttons the TF way of admitting Ltp?

Everyone is taking in code

The humble Scarf has been weaponised, or so it appears who would have thought !
S - secret
C- critical
A- attire
R- radical
F- eminism
Who do these Women think they are, Get them out for goodness sake, silence them ! There’s no place for political views in the Scottish Parliament

FarNorth

Galaxy

But you judged those girls on how they looked. You didnt ask their pronouns or ask their gender identity. You knew they were girls. Yes of course you could be wrong they may have been a group of men

Does Glorianny perhaps mean that they were girls / young women because of how they looked and that if they had presented differently enough to resemble men then they would, in fact, be men?
Unless of course they were then masculine looking women.
I guess it's up to them which they are, from moment to moment. So, really, we all (including Glorianny) should refer to everyone as persons unless told otherwise.

That might be a possibility Far North but it would require a complete change of perception and of vocabulary for everyone..
I posted about people I thought were girls on a thread discussing women's dress. I freely admit that I could have been wrong, some of them could have been boys dressed up.
For the most part I try to respect differences and if I meet anyone who I am unsure about I will ask which pronoun they prefer. That's a polite way of finding out how they identify. It's something many GCs won't do for some reason. And yes some of them may say "she" one day and "he" another. I believe they are called gender fluid.
I must say that the people I meet, who do dress differently and who are sometimes hard to classify, are, in my opinion, doing a lot more to shift and change gender norms than any GC feminists I've seen.

I don’t see how gender fluid people are doing more to shift gender norms.

If they are in a dress with make up and heels and behaving as they think a woman behaves one day and then in trousers and shirt with a male cut and behaving like they think a man behaves another day, surely they are reinforcing gender stereotypes?

What a funny picture that creates trisher.
Where normal people might ask for a name and then use that or ‘you’ .
Before you have a conversation with anyone you ask them which pronoun they prefer. Do you then refer to them as he or she throughout the conversation? 🤣🤣🤣

It's something many GCs won't do for some reason.

It’s certainly something my GC wouldn’t do-the reason being they evidently have better manners than you and much more common sense.

I wouldnt do it with regards to young people because of the Cass report and NHS guidelines.

Lathyrus

I don’t see how gender fluid people are doing more to shift gender norms.

If they are in a dress with make up and heels and behaving as they think a woman behaves one day and then in trousers and shirt with a male cut and behaving like they think a man behaves another day, surely they are reinforcing gender stereotypes?

Of course they are.
It drives me mad that folk can’t see this.
I see Galaxy, especially, politely explaining this, what seems to be at least once a week.
‘Gender critical’ to me just makes sense, and doesn’t have to be automatically conflated with trans people.
I do however think wonder if the extreme and prevalent representation of over sexualised femininity is behind so many girls rejecting the whole concept of womanhood.
I know that I personally wouldn’t have been at all comfortable going through puberty and adolescence in the current hot bed of pornography inspired imagery.
I simply would not have wanted to grow up.
And that’s even without the actual pornograply and it’s obsession with anal and choking etc.
I’m not surprised so many children are scared and confused.

(Thank you FarNorth, I didn’t express myself as well as I should, sorry Doodledog but I hope that you got my drift ).

That might be a possibility Far North but it would require a complete change of perception and of vocabulary for everyone..
I posted about people I thought were girls on a thread discussing women's dress. I freely admit that I could have been wrong, some of them could have been boys dressed up.

Don't we already have people, including in our NHS and schools, trying to enforce "a complete change of perception and of vocabulary for everyone.."?

"Perhaps they were boys dressed up" is the obvious thought, if they weren't girls, but wouldn't you Glorianny have considered that they might be transgirls i.e. girls who were born male?
Or is that simply covered by saying "girls"?
If so, why did you seem confused by being asked about it?

Thousands of people have presented themselves differently from the stereotypes for their sex, in the decades of living memory.
Call it 'gender -fluid' if you like but it's nothing to do with their physical sex and it's not ground-breaking.

Not banned. An error by security staff. Flags and political slogans etc are banned. www.theguardian.com/society/2022/nov/15/woman-wearing-suffragette-coloured-scarf-removed-from-holyrood-debate

I agree completely fanny, lots of the detransitioners (female to Male) talk very articulately about the discomfort they felt with puberty and the pressure on women to look a certain way. It perhaps might help if older women talked about how puberty made them feel. I can still remember the utter despair I felt when I had my first period, it was loss and fear. I appreciate it's different for each girl/ woman but I think it's a very common experience.

Not banned. Security staff error.
.https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/nov/15/woman-wearing-suffragette-coloured-scarf-removed-from-holyrood-debate

Sorry - posted link twice in error.

Rules written by men I expect. The women there need to stand together and refuse to leave...

Theoddbird

Rules written by men I expect. The women there need to stand together and refuse to leave...

Not really the Scottish Parliament has a much larger percentage of women MPs than its Westminster counter part. 45% so not quite equal yet.

There is a rule about displaying items of a political nature.

Others were allowed to wear the colours of their choice even though they also are representative of a stance. Clearly prejudice was present towards a standpoint approved by the Government of the day. That is why it is so worrying in a Parliament.

In regard to ‘an error by security staff’. As I know from being n change of a large organisation, the ethos of an organisation, what it will promote, what it will not tolerate, comes from the top down. The vast majority of employees will carry out their duties with the remit they believe they have been given.

So not a simple error. An action which he believed would be approved by those in authority.

In many of the trans discussion, a number of us said we were seen as ‘tomboys’ . I certainly thought boys had more fun, more freedom. I’d rather climb a tree than play with dolls or princesses.
FannyC is right to question the increasing pressure on girls to accept exaggerated gender stereotypes - huge breasts, lip pouts etc. no wonder one option is to reject the idea of being a girl

Glorianny

Theoddbird
Rules written by men I expect. The women there need to stand together and refuse to leave...
Not really the Scottish Parliament has a much larger percentage of women MPs than its Westminster counter part. 45% so not quite equal yet.

That makes it even worse.
A smaller number of males making the rules for a large number of females. Now where have I heard that before?

Unfortunately, there are many female politicians, especially the first minister, who think it's desirable to enable men to have the legal sex of 'female'.

FarNorth

Unfortunately, there are many female politicians, especially the first minister, who think it's desirable to enable men to have the legal sex of 'female'.

Please tell me she doesn’t really believe that’s possible.

Of course it wasn't 'a simple error'. There will have been a list of proscribed logos, flags and slogans, as otherwise security guards would have to have an encyclopaedic knowledge of symbols and signifiers which would take their minds off carrying out actual security duties. The evicted woman said that she was asked to remove it by a clerk who told her that she had been asked to tell her to remove it. (Source Scottish Daily Express). Other reports have included quotes from a spokesman who appeared to be taking responsibility and blaming the 'no political symbols' policy.

The suffragette colours have been used before (by the agender wing of the trans lobby who used them in their flag), but the vast majority of people who recognise the colours as representative of a group will see them as the colours of women's suffrage, and the scarf owner has said that it was in that context that she wore them. There have been comments on Twitter accusing so-called GC feminists of stealing the colours from the agender lot, but I would love to see that contested in court . (A) they were purloined in the first place, so there could be no claim for exclusivity, and (B) every schoolchild knows the colours as representing women's suffrage and what they represent, or failing that a quick google would set them straight (no pun intended). The situation is becoming farcical. Also, there are now so many 'gender' flags that pretty much every combination of colours has been used by someone at some time.

Glorianny, can I please trouble you for an explanation of the logic in your earlier post that gives your reason for believing that TWAW? I'll quote what you said for a third time, in case you missed it the other twice:

. . . . any policy which assumes women can be identified or recognised simply by their external appearance necessarily impacts on what is found acceptable for women. That transwomen therefore are women.

I just don't see how the former statement links to the latter in any way.

Finally, I see no reason why climbing trees should be a gendered activity. Pretty much everyone uses it as an example of something they did that is/was seen as 'tomboy', which certainly suggests that it was fairly mainstream for girls as well as boys. I do agree about the pressure on girls and young women to look like inflatable dolls though, with pneumatic breasts and pouting lips. I think there is a direct link to the porn industry with that, and it wouldn't surprise me if it also linked to girls wanting to identify as non-binary. At least some of that rejection of femininity has always been around in other ways though. I remember girls saying that they preferred hanging round with boys before 'NB' had been invented, and am pretty sure that it was because they saw male as equalling higher status. Others quietly got on with pushing the boundaries to try to remove or blur gender expectations, and were doing quote well until the trans lobby came along to bring them back with knobs on (no pun intended there, either).

Doodledog

Everyone is taking in code

I can’t keep up with the half of it, but my offering of the day is
TWTWTW
I used to like Millicent’s hair.

FarNorth

Unfortunately, there are many female politicians, especially the first minister, who think it's desirable to enable men to have the legal sex of 'female'.

Honestly if the only way you can win an argument is by misrepresenting the other side's views all it shows is the sheer weakness of your own opinion.

For the record Nicola Sturgeon and many other women believe that trans people have a right to be recognised as the gender they present as, and to have their gender recognition certificate recognised and their rights protected. That's the gender bit.

They also believe that female spaces are protected by law in that any transwoman (even those with a gender recognition certificate) can be prevented from using any service or space if doing so would prevent natal women from accessing it- that's the sex bit.

Still why bother posting your own views when you can misrepresent someone elses?

The best code for any thread where TRA’s or TF’s are ranting is the code for Trans Women Are Transwomen.
It has the added virtue of being true.

Very good Oreo!