Scarf in Suffragette colours not allowed in Scottish Parliament.

As always, a very good post Doodledog and I agree with all of it. Nothing you have said is bigoted or inflammatory, it's just plain and sensible (sorry if that offends you as I imagine you are anything but )

Of course they are welcome to join the march. That's the nature of intersectional feminism, we accept all women.
They did join the march. That's the nature of protest. People come along to express support for a cause. They don't usually ask others to fill in a form to ascertain their beliefs about other causes before walking next to them.

JaneJudge

As always, a very good post Doodledog and I agree with all of it. Nothing you have said is bigoted or inflammatory, it's just plain and sensible (sorry if that offends you as I imagine you are anything but )

Thank you.

Plain and sensible, that's me

Intersectional feminists aren't the only ones who accept all women, all feminists do but not all feminists accept trans women as being women, because they're not.

Smileless2012

Intersectional feminists aren't the only ones who accept all women, all feminists do but not all feminists accept trans women as being women, because they're not.

Well said.

These cases of trans offenders worry me, and unfortunately we are hearing of more and more of them - I believe one police force actually had a go at someone on Twitter for misgendering one of these dangerous men. If a girl was raped and got pregnant then she was assaulted by a man - it really is that simple. People are tying themselves in knots trying to be politically correct over this issue. I feel so sorry for the majority of trans people who just want to quietly get on with their lives without all this unnecessary and often unpleasant attention.

VioletSky

glorianny shoots! She scores!

The GC do not have the numbers they think.

Or they are just not going public, preferring largely anonymous platforms and talking in circles over action

This is the level of debate now, is it.
Are you, Violetsky at all concerned that the right wing media are portraying themselves as the true supporters of women, and that it is not out of the question that they may win another election ifLabour lose women's votes over this issue.
Did you glance at all at the article in this weeks Observer by Sonia Sodha. Could you possibly consider that a left wing, relatively young, female journalist might have a different opinion to your own that is just as valid.

That’s exactly the case Saetana the key words being tying themselves in knots trying to be politically correct.
At the expense of women.
I would like the police to just do their jobs and attend burglaries a bit faster instead of spouting woke nonsense.

Trans woman

You guys say it yourselves and tell me off

It's baffling

This thread is almost at 1,000 posts, surprising or what?
Who will get the last word!

Is anyone on here actually a trans person?

Trans people and those who love and support them will have the final word

This is mine on this thread

It's called divide and rule. Divide us feminists - and the Right win.

I guess that means you are not going to bother responding to my question then Violetsky

VioletSky

Trans people and those who love and support them will have the final word

This is mine on this thread

Tomorrow belongs to you?

Smileless2012

Intersectional feminists aren't the only ones who accept all women, all feminists do but not all feminists accept trans women as being women, because they're not.

Ah if only Smileless2012 I have been told I don't care about women, I put men first, I don't want women to be safe. called misogynistic and generally insulted on these threads.
But I am an intersectional feminist. I believe transwomen are women, because woman is a gender term and not to accept transwomen as women is to place on ordinary women an obligation to prove their sex either by dressing a certain way or by carrying some sort of ID, both of which concepts interfere with personal freedoms.
Thankgoodness for the young intersectional feminists who took part in this walk helped organise it and are actively working to support survivors and prevent sexual violence. Deeds still speak louder than words!

Glorianny

Smileless2012

Intersectional feminists aren't the only ones who accept all women, all feminists do but not all feminists accept trans women as being women, because they're not.

Ah if only Smileless2012 I have been told I don't care about women, I put men first, I don't want women to be safe. called misogynistic and generally insulted on these threads.
But I am an intersectional feminist. I believe transwomen are women, because woman is a gender term and not to accept transwomen as women is to place on ordinary women an obligation to prove their sex either by dressing a certain way or by carrying some sort of ID, both of which concepts interfere with personal freedoms.
Thankgoodness for the young intersectional feminists who took part in this walk helped organise it and are actively working to support survivors and prevent sexual violence. Deeds still speak louder than words!

No, Glorianny. Some of the things you have posted have been called misogynistic, and it has been pointed out that if 'some of the things you advocate^ become enshrined in law then women will not be safe. That is not the same thing, however often you suggest that the mean girls call you nasty names.

Do you ever speak or post your own thoughts, as yourself, or is everything you think or do filtered through the tenets of the groups you feel justify your viewpoints? I don't post as a feminist, or as a socialist, as I think and speak for myself. Sometimes that might be illogical or inconsistent, but that is because I am a person, not a mouthpiece or reciting a catechism.

I understand that you have a deep-seated concern about 'butch lesbians' and 'masculine-looking' women being asked to somehow prove their femaleness, as you post about this a lot. To be honest, I can't envisage such a scenario, but that is not to minimise your concerns. It seems to me that it is only likely if a naturally masculine-looking woman chooses to dress without even a nod to the gender norms by which you set such store. That would seem perverse, if she didn't want to attract the sort of attention you describe, but as I say, I can't envisage it - under what sort of circumstances might this happen? I'm not saying that anyone should have to dress in a particular way, but the whole premise of this thread is based on the idea that there is a time and a place for particular clothing.

Glorianny, when you can admit that TW are not AHF , I will believe that you don’t put males first. Calling them a woman/women, only works for those who are still unaware that the word has been corrupted to allow you to put males first.

Whenever there is a question about what should be done to keep females safe, you drag it round to put the needs of TW in there first.
You may not recognise that you do that, but you do.
You allocate names ( e.g. GC, feminist) to people in a derogatory fashion to people who don’t who don’t accept what you think they mean.
Then you claim that giving yourself a new title like transectional means you care for everyone where others don’t.
They do, but I or they, don’t need a title to do that and feminists care for females first, not males.

Mollygo

Glorianny, when you can admit that TW are not AHF , I will believe that you don’t put males first. Calling them a woman/women, only works for those who are still unaware that the word has been corrupted to allow you to put males first.

Whenever there is a question about what should be done to keep females safe, you drag it round to put the needs of TW in there first.
You may not recognise that you do that, but you do.
You allocate names ( e.g. GC, feminist) to people in a derogatory fashion to people who don’t who don’t accept what you think they mean.
Then you claim that giving yourself a new title like transectional means you care for everyone where others don’t.
They do, but I or they, don’t need a title to do that and feminists care for females first, not males.

As far as I know the term gender critical feminist is the correct term for people who don't accept transwomen. are women. I use intersectional feminist for myself and people who think like me because that is also an understood term. Pretending that feminist is a term you can use because you pass judgement about transwomen that I disagree with and claiming that therefore I put men first is just an example of how misrepresented intersectional feminists are.
But as I said before. It is the intersectional feminists who are working and demonstrating. They are reclaiming the streets. They are joining other women in the UN 16Days of Activism.
www.unwomen.org/en/news-stories/in-focus/2022/11/in-focus-16-days-of-activism-against-gender-based-violence?gclid=Cj0KCQiAvqGcBhCJARIsAFQ5ke5GZa6u-bE2HNQkR_R2PNBO62dgM5eJxADkTORBLpznx6U-dt2vl7saAomPEALw_wcB
This march was just a beginning.

No Glorianny, until you can admit that TW are not female, you are still putting males first.

Pretending that feminist is a term you can use because you pass judgement about transwomen that I disagree with and claiming that therefore I put men first is just an example of how misrepresented intersectional feminists are.
This doesn't make sense. I've read it several times and don't know if you are disagreeing with some transwomen, who it is you say Molly is judging, and why your putting men first has anything to do with terminology.

Regardless, all this posturing about what other people are doing in the name of different groups is divisive and, dare I say, unsisterly?

As I said in my previous post it is easier to discuss with people who speak as themselves rather than as mouthpieces for organisations or schools of thought. Otherwise it all becomes too theoretical and set-piece predictable, with a playbook of words and phrases rearranged in a slightly different order.

Woman is not a gender term Glorianny, a woman is an adult female.

Smileless2012

Woman is not a gender term Glorianny, a woman is an adult female.

Woman is a gender term Smileless2012. It is the way we routinely and every day divide people without knowing anything about their sex. I accept that the people I meet who tell me they are women are women. How can I not? None of the women I know have ever revealed evidence of their sex to me, nor I to them. I also know people who identify as non binary and people who identify as men. Very few of the people I know have ever revealed their sex to me. Most of our judgements are gender not sex based.

Ah so now I'm unsisterly Doodledog. Funny how all the terms of abuse come from that side isn't it?
I have fully identified and explained my own beliefs and why I and other intersectional feminists hold them.

It would be nice if those with differing views could state exactly what they think will happen in society if their views are applied. How they would like to be addressed, as Gender critical and cis seem to be terms they object to, and quite how they see a narrow and restrictive view of what a woman is, doing anything at all to free any woman from conforming to set standards which have always, and will still, limit the boundaries of behaviour and appearance for us.
I can see that doing this will advance and promote the views of the right wing and religious extremists, but quite how feminism comes into it I don't understand.

If you don't think that saying that certain types of feminists should bring their own banners and organise their own marches (even when they share the aims of the one under discussion) is divisive, I don't know what is. Division between women is how I would define 'unsisterly'.

Instead of continually asking us to jump through hoops explaining how we would rewrite the legal system in order to maintain women's rights whilst not offending the sensitivities of a small number of men, why not have the manners to answer one of the numerous questions people have asked you? I have asked several on this thread alone, but it seems you can't be bothered to answer.

You can call me anything you like Glorianny, I dont think I have any capacity to control what people call me .