Scarf in Suffragette colours not allowed in Scottish Parliament.

Black women will of course be impacted by the presence of males in female sports. In fact it wouldnt amaze me if it impacted them more. Lots of scholarships in the states are linked to sporting success, I assume that similar to here many black women are disproportionately impacted by poverty, so scholarships will be important.

Galaxy

Glorianny when I say you can identify sex I mean that say it's a thread about Sean Connory you will know he is a man. You will talk about organisations or political parties being full of 'white men'. You are identifying their sex.

No I think if you asked Sean Connery he would say he was a man, and he is generally identified as a man in the mass media which is the only source of information I have about him, so I use that to identify him. Should he subsequently say he was a woman I would look at that- but actually that's still gender. I really don't know about his sex. Nor I think does any one else.

As for political parties being full of white men I don't think I have said any such thing. I have said power rests in the hands of mainly white men that's a very different thing. But once again based on gender. As I said I really don't know the sex of most people all my views are faced on gender as are most people's.

I see you’re still conflating the issues of black female athletes with the cheating transwomen.

Would you stand up in TV and say you condone cheating by males if it results in benefits to males?
If you condone cheating in one area . . .

Mollygo

I never quite understand why T or G keeps conflating the issues of black women in sport, which is a serious issue in its own right, with males (transwomen) cheating in sport.

In fact, I still can’t understand how any female whether or not they are hiding behind the anonymity on GN, can condone the cheating carried out by males.
Condoning cheating gives a very poor impression of their principles for other aspects of their lives.
How many of them would stand up on TV and say in front of their family, work colleagues and friends and say, I approve of cheating as long as it’s done by males, to benefit males
Simply that, without being able to dress it up with any excuses.

Having read that article, it now appears that the problems being faced by black athletes with higher testosterone levels is being used by T to validate the inclusion of males in female sport competitions. That’s wrong. The black female athletes are not claiming to be something they are not. TW are.

Addressing the issues in that article are important. I wonder what you are doing about that Glorianny?
Using it to endorse TW cheating is appalling.
Despite their own issues, do black female athletes think allowing males to cheat would be acceptable?
I doubt it.

Mollygo I'm saying that it isn't always easy or simple to identify who is a woman, and that if in doing so any sort of interference or restriction that imposes unacceptable processes on any woman is involved, that should be opposed by all women. Because they are women.
There is little difference between imposing a restriction for natural testosterone on someone (especially as there is no proven link with performance levels) and imposing any other restrictions based on race or origins. They are discriminatory and they are harmful to women.
But I can see that for some people the occasional appearance of a trans women in sport would be of more importance than the experiences of many black women. Perhaps though they should be questioning why that's the case.

Glorianny when I say you can identify sex I mean that say it's a thread about Sean Connory you will know he is a man. You will talk about organisations or political parties being full of 'white men'. You are identifying their sex.

FarNorth

VioletSky did you notice my posts and my requests for your views on them?

No sorry

VioletSky did you notice my posts and my requests for your views on them?

Please can you explain how labelling me a trans activist. Insisting trans women are easily recognisable. Saying trans women are dangerous in toilets and changing rooms will help these unfortunate people? I'm afraid I can't see it.

I didn't say any of those things Glorianny.
I agree with transwoman Debbie Hayton (tweet shown in my post earlier) that transwomen are males and are just as likely to be dangerous as any other male.

I was also making the separate point that instant acceptance of someone's claim to be trans, or even suggesting to them that they may be trans, is not a good policy.
As you'll know, it is the policy promoted by many trans supporters including the Scottish Government which intends to put it into law and was discussing that very thing at the time of the Scarf Incident.

I never quite understand why T or G keeps conflating the issues of black women in sport, which is a serious issue in its own right, with males (transwomen) cheating in sport.

Mollygo it's a common practice among some transpeople and their allies to conflate transwomen with black women. India Willoughby who is a transwoman constantly tweets if black women can be included under women then so should transwomen. Totally unable to recognise their own racism. Tell them that black, yellow, white, brown, tall, short, fat or thin, women share a sex which unites us and they just can't see why their feelings don't equally qualify them.

Of course some black female athletes have suffered discrimination for higher testosterone levels, but those that have a DSD which is specific to males, really don't have a case, no matter that they have thought of themselves as female. DSDs are sex specific, eg Turner syndrome is exclusively a female one, Klinefelter syndrome exclusively affects males.

What is a TF?

This is so true.
A feminist would think my views matter but evidently TF’s don’t afford that politeness to any feminists who don’t need a subsidiary title to validate their beliefs.

Feminists certainly do not use abuse tactics to try to shut you down.
No they don’t, nor refer to others as an echo chamber or suggest that their version of feminism is better than someone else’s.

So GC it is from now on unless respect is earned back. 🤣🤣🤣

I’m really pleased about that. I’m not GC with whatever meaning you ascribe to that term. So GC away to your heart’s consent.

I’m a feminist and I don’t need your respect to show that I’m a good one.

So, going back to the OP, do TF’s believe females should be allowed to wear whatever colours they like, whether they’re rainbow -hued or suffragette?

I never quite understand why T or G keeps conflating the issues of black women in sport, which is a serious issue in its own right, with males (transwomen) cheating in sport.

In fact, I still can’t understand how any female whether or not they are hiding behind the anonymity on GN, can condone the cheating carried out by males.
Condoning cheating gives a very poor impression of their principles for other aspects of their lives.
How many of them would stand up on TV and say in front of their family, work colleagues and friends and say, I approve of cheating as long as it’s done by males, to benefit males
Simply that, without being able to dress it up with any excuses.

Having read that article, it now appears that the problems being faced by black athletes with higher testosterone levels is being used by T to validate the inclusion of males in female sport competitions. That’s wrong. The black female athletes are not claiming to be something they are not. TW are.

Addressing the issues in that article are important. I wonder what you are doing about that Glorianny?
Using it to endorse TW cheating is appalling.
Despite their own issues, do black female athletes think allowing males to cheat would be acceptable?
I doubt it.

You're a regular contributor to these threads Glorianny so you've already seen the evidence that this is the case. Did you not read about Brian, the 'winner' of a female beauty pageant?

FannyCornforth

The first feminist was Mary Wollstonecraft.

She may have been the first English feminist but her ideas came from the women in the French revolution
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_the_French_Revolution
Although arguably the women Levellers were feminists before the word was coined
blogs.reading.ac.uk/gender-history-cluster/2021/01/18/women-and-the-levellers/

FarNorth

Glorianny did you see my posts about Shape Shifter and other detransitioners ?

He believes that people who need counselling, and/or who have mental health problems, are being guided into a trans identity which won't help them at all.

Of course some people need counselling FarNorth. Is it possible the lack of mental health funding is having a negative impact? of course it is.
Are these examples of individual tragedy? Of course they are.
Please can you explain how labelling me a trans activist. Insisting trans women are easily recognisable. Saying trans women are dangerous in toilets and changing rooms will help these unfortunate people? I'm afraid I can't see it.

FannyCornforth

Hello VS
I wasn’t going to post this, as I thought that you’d gone quiet and were engaged in other stuff. But you aren’t.
I am politely asking everyone to lay off you for a while. I don’t think that you are ‘in a good place’ at the moment, and you appear to be courting negative attention (as a TA I’m sure that you are aware of this behaviour)
For your own sake please put the telly on, have something nice to eat, and have an early night

I agree it's negative attention, but I'm not courting it, I'm just allowing it a voice. It's important for the truth to be shown

Thank you for your concern. Sometimes comments make me cross but mostly, it doesn't bother me

I'm an, eccentric human, I know, but genuinely I'm ok

Sorry, FC, but that suggests that people are 'laying into' VS, which is not true.

I am not saying that she shouldn't take a step back, but not because others are picking on her. I have been absolutely honest in my posts today, which has not been easy in the circumstances. Publicly asking people to 'lay off' adds to the completely imaginary narrative of VS as a victim, and is not fair.

Smileless2012

But unfortunately women are losing rights, fairness, safe space and equality due to a belief and acceptance that transwomen are women.

Please support this with real evidence.
It is once again just opinion. Not fact.

Galaxy

Yet you seem able to identify sex very accurately Glorianny.
It's an amazing skill you have.

There you are where have I said I can identify sex? Please use a quote for this or withdraw it. (I do know the biology and the physiological requirements but can't recall when I last used them. I assume they haven't changed??)
What was it Doodledog said about twisting words???? Or attributing false meanings.

Hello VS
I wasn’t going to post this, as I thought that you’d gone quiet and were engaged in other stuff. But you aren’t.
I am politely asking everyone to lay off you for a while. I don’t think that you are ‘in a good place’ at the moment, and you appear to be courting negative attention (as a TA I’m sure that you are aware of this behaviour)
For your own sake please put the telly on, have something nice to eat, and have an early night

But unfortunately women are losing rights, fairness, safe space and equality due to a belief and acceptance that transwomen are women.

Because that's what you believe?

I don't see it that way at all. I am not trying to force anyone to do anything - I am just stating my POV, which as far as I can see is exactly what others are doing too.

It's funny because

I share views on most things

The only difference is that I believe trans women are women and no woman has to lose any rights, fairness, safe space or equality to say that.

But you guys have a script and are trying to force me, a round peg, into a square hole

Why do you think that is?

The first feminist was Mary Wollstonecraft.

MerylStreep

VioletSky
I’m old enough to have been a feminist before the word was coined. Just because we are both women I don’t see why we/I shouldn’t call you out over your views.

Gosh MerylStreep are you really over 150 years old? Congratulations on posting in that case.
www.bustle.com/articles/129886-what-does-feminism-mean-a-brief-history-of-the-word-from-its-beginnings-all-the-way