Death of a two year old in substandard social housing

I wonder if a full structural survey has been done. You can see from the picture www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/families-rochdale-estate-living-mould-28511364 that it's a concrete build with some pebble dashing. Pebble dashing is notorious for having cracks which allow moisture to seep into the walls. Damp can also travel through concrete walls and floors/ceilings.

People are assuming windows in the property are table to be opened.

If it's anything like where I live, that won't be the case.

Jane there used to be Working Together and Every Child Matters - the emphasis was on agencies with key responsibility for children talking to each other and taking notice. Relationships between health, social care and housing were key here. When I retired 10 years ago. Cameron’s austerity policy was already creating distance between agencies. Housing operated in isolation

It sounds like there needs to be more advocacy for people left in situations like this too. It is really sad

I'm with you on that OnwardandUpward. It's actually counter-productive to open windows if it's raining or snowing outside because the damp external air will come indoors. From the pictures I've seen, there was no window in the bathroom anyway. Ventilation depended on an extractor fan, which was broken, and the HA knew about.

I also agree that it's the landlord's responsibility to make sure that tenants know how to deal with condensation, although I suspect there's a problem more serious than condensation in this case. The mother couldn't speak English well, so the landlord should have gone round with her and demonstrated what to do, which would have included keeping the heating on and drying laundry outside (if there was somewhere). I wonder if there was an extractor fan over the hob. If they couldn't afford heating, there are grants which could have helped. It really does seem that the HA washed its hands of its responsibilities. I guess more details will leak out in due course.

Many housing association properties are not adequately maintained because of "budget", which is appalling.

I agree, you cannot put a price on safety and I agree about the ventilation comment- but I do think landlords are at fault and that there is more they could do. Refugees from warmer climates probably find England very cold and may not understand about ventilation. It may seem madness to let the cold air in- and they may be more worried about keeping their child warm.

I totally blame the HA for not checking and treating the mould (and the source of the mould)

I find it really crass that people are discussing opening of windows when a 2 year old has died as a result of poor housing in a first world country. The windows being opened would not have made any difference. He died because of the shocking state of the property. The property wasn't habitable and everyone should be shocked about it because it is happening everywhere. In fact it is even more shocking that it was an housing association property.

Someone who's a landlord here commented that they always give a ventilation hand out to their tenants and asked what more could they do?

Well, I would actually ask tenants to read it and sign to say they understand it. Giving someone a leaflet (that they may lose and never read) isn't the same as making sure they have read (and comprehended) the information. Not everyone is good at reading or comprehending what they have read or some may be busy and lose the leaflet.

That's just me, but if I was a landlord it would not be enough to give out the information , I would want to know it was understood.

I’d be interested to know what the property was like before they moved in. Was it a historical problem.

It's something which has concerned me for some time.

Callistemon21

^News at 10 on ITV have been reporting on seriously substandard housing for some time, none of them could be sorted out by "a but of bleach and elbow grease" as some on here think^

I've seen those reports. Sometimes ceilings have collapsed as they are wet and have rotted.

I do wonder if cavity wall insulation is counter productive. Cavities are left between walls for a reason and it is thought that if the cavity is filled with certain materials, then damp could wick through and cause mould.

Yes, it can be.

www.neverpaintagain.co.uk/blog/why-cavity-wall-insulation-causes-damp-and-mould/

I open my windows every morning (the bedroom window is open all night) and I still get mould. Unless I open the window whilst taking a shower, the bathroom gets mouldy despite the extractor fan.

News at 10 on ITV have been reporting on seriously substandard housing for some time, none of them could be sorted out by "a but of bleach and elbow grease" as some on here think

I've seen those reports. Sometimes ceilings have collapsed as they are wet and have rotted.

I do wonder if cavity wall insulation is counter productive. Cavities are left between walls for a reason and it is thought that if the cavity is filled with certain materials, then damp could wick through and cause mould.

I accept that ventilation is not enough. But ventilation by some means is necessary.

Also necessary is a sufficient heat source which the householder can afford.

Is it alleged that houses have been built that were unfit ?

growstuff

In any case, I've never opened windows as a habit in the morning and never had mould either.

I have trickle vents on my windows and my homes have always been well-built and adequately heated and insulated.

The reason mould becomes a real problem is because homes aren't properly protected.

The mould reported in the property where the child lived is not the kind that can be sorted by opening a window every morning as I do, I realise that. I also have trickle vents on my windows and can afford to heat my home, an option not available to many this winter. Irrespective of our individual situations, it cannot, should not, be denied that some housing is simply not fit for habitation whether or not z window is thrown open every morning. News at 10 on ITV have been reporting on seriously substandard housing for some time, none of them could be sorted out by "a but of bleach and elbow grease" as some on here think.

Opening windows is not advised

I live in a rented property and have an annual inspection. I don't have any issues with damp or mould, but the agent always checks the extractor fans in the toilets/bathroom and the one over the hob, the trickle vents on the windows and the ventilation brick. I'm asked how I dry my laundry. The agent also gets somebody to check my gutters to make sure they're not blocked. I've been told to keep the room temperature at 15 degrees and my insulation has been checked to make sure I'm not wasting my money on heating. I haven't had the heating on at all this year, but the property is so well insulated it's still quite warm which older/cheaply built properties often aren't. If I can keep my windows shut, I don't accept that it's compulsory to open them. A warm room with double glazing shouldn't have that much condensation.

The parents of the toddler who died had reported the mould, but nothing was done. It was acknowledged that an extractor fan wasn't working and I wonder how often the property was inspected. They were told to paint over the mould, which would have been ineffective. Other tenants in the block said they had the same problem, so it sounds as though there could have been a structural problem.

It was totally shocking and unacceptable. Apparently mould in rented properties is a grey area for action! Tenants would need a survey, they can’t afford that. Landlords can say the mould was caused by the tenant not airing the house, drying washing inside and not opening windows. Without a survey to prove structural issues, tenants have nowhere to go, it is totally wrong. The situation will probably worsen now due to the high energy costs. For the loss of a life to open the debate is a very sad situation.

JaneJudge

the level of mould shown in the photographs wouldn't have been solved by opening the windows for a bit in the morning

No, it wouldn't. Not only that, but opening windows when it's cold and wet outside is counter-productive as far as damp is concerned.

the level of mould shown in the photographs wouldn't have been solved by opening the windows for a bit in the morning

Growstuff It takes longer than 10 seconds to open and close all windows.

Yes obviously but the poster concerned said she opens one window and I concurred. No need to exaggerate.

Caleo

I open my window very wide when I get up in the morning and leave the bedclothes pulled back. After breakfast I tidy the bed and close the window.

That's what I do too.

Margiknot

The coroner ruled that little Awaab died due to a severe respiratory condition caused by prolonged exposure to mould in the child’s home environment.
It’s possible - perhaps that the limitations imposed during the pandemic (such as having to use translation services via phones at the hospital, lockdown restrictions keeping children indoors, launderettes being closed, etc may have added to this developing tragedy, but the primary cause- was the deadly mould. Reports in the papers show the parents tried to get help for years to first treat the mould then try to get rehoused.
Mould and damp needs to be taken seriously.

The coroner actually found
However the very difficult question in light of the position of the NCA and the evidence of Dr Panesa is, would Awaab have died at the exact time he did if appropriate advice and treatment had been given. Dr Panesa was pressed on this point in questions from myself and his evidence to the court was that Awaab would not have died if an ambulance had been called or if he had been taken directly to Oldham Hospital

He explained that they would have been able to place the ventilation tube further down past the blockage which would have prevented the cardiac arrest

So the confusion about the medical help he needed contributed to his death

It takes longer than 10 seconds to open and close all windows.

If a property has good ventilation, it's not even necessary.

I’m not suggesting the mould was anything to do with the parents but I can’t understand why a poster was jumped on for saying she opens a window first thing and. yes, I have had the morning rush with kids but it has never stopped me having 10 seconds to open a window. It’s not bedlam for everyone getting up and getting children to school. It’s not as if there’s an air raid siren sounding!