Death of a two year old in substandard social housing

Someone who's a landlord here commented that they always give a ventilation hand out to their tenants and asked what more could they do?

Well, I would actually ask tenants to read it and sign to say they understand it. Giving someone a leaflet (that they may lose and never read) isn't the same as making sure they have read (and comprehended) the information. Not everyone is good at reading or comprehending what they have read or some may be busy and lose the leaflet.

That's just me, but if I was a landlord it would not be enough to give out the information , I would want to know it was understood.

I find it really crass that people are discussing opening of windows when a 2 year old has died as a result of poor housing in a first world country. The windows being opened would not have made any difference. He died because of the shocking state of the property. The property wasn't habitable and everyone should be shocked about it because it is happening everywhere. In fact it is even more shocking that it was an housing association property.

Many housing association properties are not adequately maintained because of "budget", which is appalling.

I agree, you cannot put a price on safety and I agree about the ventilation comment- but I do think landlords are at fault and that there is more they could do. Refugees from warmer climates probably find England very cold and may not understand about ventilation. It may seem madness to let the cold air in- and they may be more worried about keeping their child warm.

I totally blame the HA for not checking and treating the mould (and the source of the mould)

I'm with you on that OnwardandUpward. It's actually counter-productive to open windows if it's raining or snowing outside because the damp external air will come indoors. From the pictures I've seen, there was no window in the bathroom anyway. Ventilation depended on an extractor fan, which was broken, and the HA knew about.

I also agree that it's the landlord's responsibility to make sure that tenants know how to deal with condensation, although I suspect there's a problem more serious than condensation in this case. The mother couldn't speak English well, so the landlord should have gone round with her and demonstrated what to do, which would have included keeping the heating on and drying laundry outside (if there was somewhere). I wonder if there was an extractor fan over the hob. If they couldn't afford heating, there are grants which could have helped. It really does seem that the HA washed its hands of its responsibilities. I guess more details will leak out in due course.

It sounds like there needs to be more advocacy for people left in situations like this too. It is really sad

Jane there used to be Working Together and Every Child Matters - the emphasis was on agencies with key responsibility for children talking to each other and taking notice. Relationships between health, social care and housing were key here. When I retired 10 years ago. Cameron’s austerity policy was already creating distance between agencies. Housing operated in isolation

People are assuming windows in the property are table to be opened.

If it's anything like where I live, that won't be the case.

I wonder if a full structural survey has been done. You can see from the picture www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/families-rochdale-estate-living-mould-28511364 that it's a concrete build with some pebble dashing. Pebble dashing is notorious for having cracks which allow moisture to seep into the walls. Damp can also travel through concrete walls and floors/ceilings.

I would have thought that families who are refugees should have been allocated a social worker who could have advocated for them.

If I was a refugee to another country I would not have the first clue about how to live, or about the way their buildings work, or about how to deal with their climate. If there is also a language barrier, they should have been provided with translators and with information in a language they could understand.

When you have a bathroom with only an extractor fan it's hard to ventilate properly. Some extractors can be automatic when the light goes on, which are annoying at night when you just want a wee. If the extractor was broken then this is totally the fault of the housing association.

Social workers can’t fulfill statutory duties so advocating for refugees is done by volunteers

The father has been in the UK since 2017, so he's probably beyond the stage when advocating is deemed necessary.

Oh dear, I see.

I hope if anyone is reading this who has a lot of mould and damp in their home that they will find someone to advocate for them. I wouldn't know where to look if I was in their circumstance and we can't change what has happened already- but it would be good if things change for the better for the many people who must also be living in similar conditions.

But this family knew what to do - and they did it. They informed their social landlord, again and again and again.

The fault for this dreadful tragedy, lies with the Housing Association who failed to act on complaints from not just this family, but many others. The chairman of the HA did not consider this a resigning issue, so ended up being sacked.

This family were in what looked like a modern block of flats, and many other occupants of the block had the same problem. This suggest that the problem lay with the building, either, the system used to build it or the quality of the workmanship.

But , going to their landlord was not enough or "the right thing" because there are bad landlords who put profit before safety. Many builders who put profit before quality, too.

That's why it's best to go to the Housing Ombudsman at www.housing-ombudsman.org.uk/

OnwardandUpward

But , going to their landlord was not enough or "the right thing" because there are bad landlords who put profit before safety. Many builders who put profit before quality, too.

That's why it's best to go to the Housing Ombudsman at www.housing-ombudsman.org.uk/

Not everybody knows about the Housing Ombudsman. Are you saying that it is their fault that their child died because they didn't go to the Housing Ombudsman?

It annoys me that this is seen as a racist issue and staff need training on the matter. FGS no one should have to live in such conditions regardless of race, sex or whatever. What’s happening to basic humanity and basic standards when staff have to be told it’s not alright for black people to suffer this. It’s not alright for anyone. There is no excuse. Housing should be of a certain standard before it is let out at all.

I would think we would have to see how many white people were allocated to those flats before we could take a view. If they were predominantly offered to an ethnic minority, it may well be a bias, consciously or unconsciously.

The reports say that the HA admitted that an inspector made assumptions about the family's lifestyle. Apparently, a bucket was seen in the bathroom and it was assumed that the family indulged in ritual bathing and water splashed on the floor. As a result, they were told to paint over the mould and there were no further structural investigations.

gosh, that's actually shocking

icanhandthemback

I would think we would have to see how many white people were allocated to those flats before we could take a view. If they were predominantly offered to an ethnic minority, it may well be a bias, consciously or unconsciously.

My point is that this housing should not be offered to anybody, whoever or whatever they are. Basic housing standards should be in place.

I started working in the paid part of the Voluntary Sector about 33 years ago and was stunned by the assumptions made by the statutory agencies in tory areas that Not For Profit = Charity and that ANYTHING done by a Housing Association would be better than ANYTHING done by Local Government.

The salary enjoyed by a particular Housing Association chief could be contrasted with that of the head of Council Housing in the same City Council area. The former earned around twice to three times as much when all the goodies were added in and the latter was dealing with at least ten times more property - much of which needed updating.

Sick making.

icanhandthemback

OnwardandUpward

But , going to their landlord was not enough or "the right thing" because there are bad landlords who put profit before safety. Many builders who put profit before quality, too.

That's why it's best to go to the Housing Ombudsman at www.housing-ombudsman.org.uk/

Not everybody knows about the Housing Ombudsman. Are you saying that it is their fault that their child died because they didn't go to the Housing Ombudsman?

No. I am disagreeing that it was the right thing to do in case anyone in a similar situation is reading this.

Yes. It is "the right thing to do", you would think. I do not believe it is their fault they did not know how to fight, I think it's a shame that they had no one to advocate for them. I would not know who to contact in another country if I was a refugee and some people in this country don't know they have to contact the Housing Ombudsman. That's why I included the website, so, hopefully no one else suffers this way.

I want to make it clear that I do not think any of it is their fault, but unless someone contacts the Housing Ombudsman, there are many bad landlords who will take the rent and do nothing. It's a fact. It shouldn't be, but it is.

Totally corrupt system and it's all about money.

I'm not entirely sure that private landlords come under the Ombudsman, OnwardandUpward. It seems to be for Housing Associations which would have worked (or not) for the case in question but wouldn't work for somebody in private rented accommodation. What a crazy system we have in this country!

I would certainly advise anyone who is a tenant to visit this page www.housing-ombudsman.org.uk/residents/make-a-complaint/outcome-page-help-landlord-isnt-registered/
if they have any problems with their tenancy , landlord or rent.

Apparently some private landlords are voluntarily registered with the Ombudsman, which says a lot about them. If not, tenants can go to their MP and CAB or other places mentioned in the link.

This is probably why many desperate tenants contact the newspapers as well. In those cases the landlord seems to step up quickly, shamed by the telling photographic evidence.