The Budget

The man in the audience was wrong.

Labour have never ever so badly managed the economy that we find ourselves going back nearly a decade in living standards.

Labour have never ever forced so many children into poverty with many going hungry.

Labour have never inflicted so much damage on the NHS that it is close to collapse .

Labour have never forced this country into unnecessary periods of austerity for absolutely no gain.

Labour has never ever made this country the laughing stock of the world.

I could go on - it is very easy to add to this list.

The intelligent Liam Halligan said last night on Farage (GB News) that he thinks Sunak and Hunt have taken us all for fools. No transparency.

A man in the audience said “if I’d wanted a socialist government I’d have voted Labour’. Many are of the opinion there’s little clear blue water between the two right now.

The papers seem to be universally gloomy about the budget with headlines like “ You’ve never had it so bad” , highlighting the big fall in living standards, higher taxes huge inflation we are suffering . Even the Daily Mail has critical headlines. Some are now acknowledging the role the government’s Brexit policies have been in damaging the UK economy.

LizzieDrip

*I believe there was something in the 2011 announcement that people should be given at least 10 years' notice of any increase which would affect them.*

Ha ha, tell that to all us WASPIE women! I was given no notice at all until a few months before I was 60 when I received a letter informing me that my pension age was now 66. Expecting to retire at 60, I had already cut down my hours at work due to stress. I had to continue working for a further 6 years and it almost finished me off! Such cruel treatment of women by our own government.

I think you'll find that you were given 10 years notice of the 2011 changes.

PS. I am a WASPI woman. I was one of the first to have my SP raised to 66.

hugshelp Do you pay rent? My rent is 65% of my total income, which is why I find it so difficult. I live on my own, so there's only one of me to pay the rent and utility bills.

I'm 67, but was working until recently, so didn't need any support. Unfortunately, I've been having treatment for cancer, which (on top of painful diabetic neuropathy in my feet and hands and the after-effects of a heart attack) has wiped my out, so I no longer work.

LOUISA That's not necessarily true. Many people in receipt of the new state pension don't receive the full amount. If they have no other income, they will probably be eligible for pension credit.

LizzieDrip

Felt like all smoke and mirrors to me - very low on detail. I feel somewhat torn about the pension triple lock actually - unpopular view, I know. As a pensioner (who had to wait 6 years for her state pension) I will benefit. However, there are many pensioners who genuinely don’t need the pension rise - some of them very well-off indeed. I thought Hunt might limit the rise to those at the lower end of pensions eg. those on pension credit etc. Whilst this would have excluded me, I wonder if it would have saved the country some money? Of course, Hunt didn’t want to p** off the rich Tory voting pensioners! Not sure about it all at the moment - I’ll wait for Martin Lewis to explain.

But I thought there was no pension credit with the new state credit?🤔..... only for those in receipt of the old state pension

growstuff, agreed - as any 'increase' is soon swallowed by inflation and rising costs. I, too, have extra little pensions and never thought my income was 'low', especially compared to friends - yet now I'm entitled to the Warmer Homes London grant and the Thames Waterhelp scheme (half price bills) - as they calculate your 'residual' income (after mortgage or rent and council tax) and, if your water bill is 3% or more of that, you get it. How others manage, I really don't understand. I was poor when the kids were young and just about managed but I'd just hate that constant worry in my old age. Where will we be in a few year's time?

I don't begrudge anyone the money they have, nor do I not accept that they find it hard to make ends meet, but DH and I have to survive on money that is way below taxable levels. The budget has helped us a little, though the rise in costs are still larger.

Thank you growstuff. I understand now. It was kind of you to share.

I agree LizzieDrip.

I believe there was something in the 2011 announcement that people should be given at least 10 years' notice of any increase which would affect them.

Ha ha, tell that to all us WASPIE women! I was given no notice at all until a few months before I was 60 when I received a letter informing me that my pension age was now 66. Expecting to retire at 60, I had already cut down my hours at work due to stress. I had to continue working for a further 6 years and it almost finished me off! Such cruel treatment of women by our own government.

I do have it, but it's not very much because I foolishly opted out for some years. I also have pensions from Reuters, Express Newspapers, Essex County Council and Pearson Education. That's why I pay income tax. Unfortunately, in total they're still barely enough to pay my rent, council tax and utility bills. I can just about manage, but I'm aware of just about every penny I spend and I'm very sharp about the implications of budgets.

But this isn't about me! It's about the smoke and mirrors of Hunt's claim that the budget supports people on lower incomes when it doesn't.

growstuff please tell me it’s none of my business if you feel that way, but I understood you were a teacher? As a teacher you should have been paying into the teacher’s superannuation scheme and therefore have a professional pension. I don’t understand why as a teacher you have not got this pension. As I said, tell me to mind my own business if you like, it won’t offend me.

😊😊

GrannyGravy13

maddyone

and in particular furlough

Pammie I certainly don’t think paying furlough to millions of people was Tory mismanagement. Maybe others do, but not me.

If the Government had not payed furlough the U.K. would be in a bigger mess, thousands of people would have lost income and some their jobs, unable to pay their bills and many many SME’s would in all probability folded.

The furlough fraud is around £5.5 billion. HMRC are mow investigating and they have received info from nearly 14,000 whistleblowers.

Another problem was that the govt guaranteed the bounce back loans and so the banks were not as stringent in the decision making process as they should have been.

I see his point as well URM

Urmstongran

GrandmaKT

Urmstongran

And at least we keep HS2.
🙁

What is it with HS2? I live in the NW and don't know one person in favour of it! I thought surely when we need to re-coup so much money this stupid white elephant will get the chop, but it seems to be mysteriously protected!

I trust you realise my comment was tongue in cheek?

If Labour pledged to scrap it in a GE manifesto they’d romp the election hands down.

Oh yes, I realised Urmstongran! This is what I mean, it's so universally unpopular and costing so much and yet it survives every budget review. Why??

Urmstongran

rafichagran

Urmstongran

Any pensioners paying 20% tax obviously are in receipt of a private as well as a state pension. It is this total amount that takes them over the c.£12,600 personal allowance before tax kicks in.

Am I right?

Yes, I will be in that position. I have worked well over 40 years but because I was contracted out a lose a very small amount of my state pension.

Himself is in exactly the same boat. He thinks better to be above the personal allowance threshold and pay tax than below it and not. I see his point.

Of course it is. I agree with him. The point I was making (before somebody decided to read between the lines) is that it's not quite so generous as people might initially have thought.

DaisyAnne

growstuff

Yes.

So what?

They've paid for it.

All I've been pointing out is that it's not a 10.1% increase for anybody who pays tax.

It is a 10.1% increase. It is also an increase in tax but then everyone earning the same amount as the pensioner is drawing will pay the same in tax.

Those are the facts. Whether you like the policy or dislike the policy is opinion. You cannot change the facts to suit the opinion.

No, it isn't. It's an 8% actual increase. That's the point I was making, if only you could read.

YOU can't change the facts!

Did you get out of bed the wrong side today?

rafichagran

Urmstongran

Any pensioners paying 20% tax obviously are in receipt of a private as well as a state pension. It is this total amount that takes them over the c.£12,600 personal allowance before tax kicks in.

Am I right?

Yes, I will be in that position. I have worked well over 40 years but because I was contracted out a lose a very small amount of my state pension.

Himself is in exactly the same boat. He thinks better to be above the personal allowance threshold and pay tax than below it and not. I see his point.

GrandmaKT

Urmstongran

And at least we keep HS2.
🙁

What is it with HS2? I live in the NW and don't know one person in favour of it! I thought surely when we need to re-coup so much money this stupid white elephant will get the chop, but it seems to be mysteriously protected!

I trust you realise my comment was tongue in cheek?

If Labour pledged to scrap it in a GE manifesto they’d romp the election hands down.

growstuff

Yes.

So what?

They've paid for it.

All I've been pointing out is that it's not a 10.1% increase for anybody who pays tax.

It is a 10.1% increase. It is also an increase in tax but then everyone earning the same amount as the pensioner is drawing will pay the same in tax.

Those are the facts. Whether you like the policy or dislike the policy is opinion. You cannot change the facts to suit the opinion.

Urmstongran

Any pensioners paying 20% tax obviously are in receipt of a private as well as a state pension. It is this total amount that takes them over the c.£12,600 personal allowance before tax kicks in.

Am I right?

Yes, I will be in that position. I have worked well over 40 years but because I was contracted out a lose a very small amount of my state pension.

Urmstongran

And at least we keep HS2.
🙁

What is it with HS2? I live in the NW and don't know one person in favour of it! I thought surely when we need to re-coup so much money this stupid white elephant will get the chop, but it seems to be mysteriously protected!

MaizieD

This was not a budget for growth. That's the long and short of it.

Just be prepared for public services to get worse and worse and for the NHS to decline further.

The OBR forecasts are dire.

All to 'pay back' a non existent debt...

Ah Maizie! You obviously weren't listening to Mr Rees-Mogg. The OBR is wrong - allegedly.