The Budget

growstuff

hugshelp

growstuff

Errrmmm ... well, no, not really. I thought I must have fallen asleep when he gave any details. Science in the UK has lost billions over the last few years from the unmentionable B ... I thought maybe we were going to turn the clocks back.

I missed the bit about the generous help for the less well off, too.

Anybody receiving an occupational pension in addition to the state pension will end up losing 20% of any increase.

Commitment to maintain investment in R &D.
However, members of the scientific community are already mentioning the amount of investment and collaboration lost due to Brexit leaves us significantly worse off.
Don't know if anyone has fully calculated any real estimates yet.

The investment was announced in March. The UK is no longer associated to Horizon Europe, so UK researchers have lost billions in potential funding. It's also started a brain drain of scientists and technologists to the EU.

Thanks growstuff - I couldn't find the exact thing I was looking for.

This was not a budget for growth. That's the long and short of it.

Just be prepared for public services to get worse and worse and for the NHS to decline further.

The OBR forecasts are dire.

All to 'pay back' a non existent debt...

Yes.

So what?

They've paid for it.

All I've been pointing out is that it's not a 10.1% increase for anybody who pays tax.

Any pensioners paying 20% tax obviously are in receipt of a private as well as a state pension. It is this total amount that takes them over the c.£12,600 personal allowance before tax kicks in.

Am I right?

hugshelp

growstuff

Errrmmm ... well, no, not really. I thought I must have fallen asleep when he gave any details. Science in the UK has lost billions over the last few years from the unmentionable B ... I thought maybe we were going to turn the clocks back.

I missed the bit about the generous help for the less well off, too.

Anybody receiving an occupational pension in addition to the state pension will end up losing 20% of any increase.

Commitment to maintain investment in R &D.
However, members of the scientific community are already mentioning the amount of investment and collaboration lost due to Brexit leaves us significantly worse off.
Don't know if anyone has fully calculated any real estimates yet.

The investment was announced in March. The UK is no longer associated to Horizon Europe, so UK researchers have lost billions in potential funding. It's also started a brain drain of scientists and technologists to the EU.

Nothing to close tax avoidance loopholes or alter ex-dom situation. Banker bonuses remain uncapped.

www.theguardian.com/news/2022/sep/27/super-rich-uk-non-doms-avoiding-32bn-in-tax-each-year-report-finds

www.cityam.com/uk-loses-more-than-845bn-a-year-due-to-offshore-wealth/

growstuff

Errrmmm ... well, no, not really. I thought I must have fallen asleep when he gave any details. Science in the UK has lost billions over the last few years from the unmentionable B ... I thought maybe we were going to turn the clocks back.

I missed the bit about the generous help for the less well off, too.

Anybody receiving an occupational pension in addition to the state pension will end up losing 20% of any increase.

Commitment to maintain investment in R &D.
However, members of the scientific community are already mentioning the amount of investment and collaboration lost due to Brexit leaves us significantly worse off.
Don't know if anyone has fully calculated any real estimates yet.

25Avalon

Excuse me, haven’t we just been through a pandemic and aren’t there shortages due to the war in Ukraine? Isn’t there global recession? Did I sleep through it all? Is every single thing down to Brexit?

You might want to watch this.
twitter.com/PeterStefanovi2/status/1592920524854038528
Longterm 4% hit on GDP due specifically to Brexit
Much bigger slowdown in the UK than the rest of the world
Strong stagnation in services
Trade underperforming compared to our peers

growstuff I think you will find most people end up replying to the tone used towards them.

Right. One thing that may not be as bad as you think it will be - at least I hope it isn't for all the people getting Council Tax Support.

I imagine you have worked it out on the current thresholds. It is likely (although not guaranteed) that these will rise. There should be a new amount they have to leave people with, or they will just have extra people claiming from their hardship funds to pay for food, etc. It may not be as bad as you are expecting by the time the pensions go up next April.

obviously don't even want anyone to suggest ways you might help yourself.

How bl**dy dare you? I can't write what I really think because the post would be deleted.

PS. Please don't patronise me. I know the state pension isn't means tested, but total income is.

No, I haven't applied because Macmillan Cancer did a detailed benefit check for me. I've also looked myself at the online benefit checkers. I know I'm not eligible for anything else.

growstuff

DaisyAnne As Pammie explained to me, it's only the disabled and sick "economically inactive" who are being investigated.

Thank you growstuff. I read that.

growstuff

Ah! I understand now.

Pensions are means-tested to an extent because the poorest receive Pension Credit, which is a "gateway benefit" and sometimes means they are better off than some with higher incomes.

I the state pension shouldn't be means-tested. The way to reduce it for higher paid pensioners should be through the tax system.

I don't think they will be growstuff. Have you applied for the other benefits I mentioned? There are people who will help you if necessary - although I suggest you are not as rude to them as you are to those trying to help on here. The people on Pension Credit may be better off if you don't bother but there is only one person who can change that. The State Pension isn't means tested. Total income may be.

You are only one example and obviously don't even want anyone to suggest ways you might help yourself. We can't use one example as "data".

It's too late to change the rise to 67, but the rise to 68 could be brought forward without breaking the rules.

Petera

Pittcity

Katyj

Did anyone hear anything about the state pension age being increased ? I just heard the tail end of it. I’ve only 6 months to go now before I get mine, surely they can’t change it now 🤞

I heard a quick remark about a review.
They wouldn't dare move it further away than already announced.

I don’t know if anything further was announced today (I don't think so) but the proposals up until recently were: increase to 67 in 2028. It was then due to increase to 68 some time after this: There have been remarks that the change to 68 will have to be sooner than was planned (but I'm unsure about the dates).

I think you'll be fine in 6 months (but never take financial advice from GN)

I believe there was something in the 2011 announcement that people should be given at least 10 years' notice of any increase which would affect them.

DaisyAnne As Pammie explained to me, it's only the disabled and sick "economically inactive" who are being investigated.

Petera

Pittcity

Katyj

Did anyone hear anything about the state pension age being increased ? I just heard the tail end of it. I’ve only 6 months to go now before I get mine, surely they can’t change it now 🤞

I heard a quick remark about a review.
They wouldn't dare move it further away than already announced.

I don’t know if anything further was announced today (I don't think so) but the proposals up until recently were: increase to 67 in 2028. It was then due to increase to 68 some time after this: There have been remarks that the change to 68 will have to be sooner than was planned (but I'm unsure about the dates).

I think you'll be fine in 6 months (but never take financial advice from GN)

According to YouGov there is an ongoing review, the results of which will be published in early 2023. Currently they are looking at increasing to age 67 for those born on or after 5 April 1960 and then to age 68 for those born on or after 5 April 1977. So the rise to age 67 would take effect in 2026.

Pittcity

Katyj

Did anyone hear anything about the state pension age being increased ? I just heard the tail end of it. I’ve only 6 months to go now before I get mine, surely they can’t change it now 🤞

I heard a quick remark about a review.
They wouldn't dare move it further away than already announced.

I don’t know if anything further was announced today (I don't think so) but the proposals up until recently were: increase to 67 in 2028. It was then due to increase to 68 some time after this: There have been remarks that the change to 68 will have to be sooner than was planned (but I'm unsure about the dates).

I think you'll be fine in 6 months (but never take financial advice from GN)

Pammie1

growstuff

The "economically inactive" aren't just those receiving sickness benefits. They include students, stay at home parents, people taking early retirement and those supported by a partner.

Agreed. But its specifically those economically inactive people who registered for sickness type benefits who will be the subject of the investigation.

Ah! I see.

growstuff

The "economically inactive" aren't just those receiving sickness benefits. They include students, stay at home parents, people taking early retirement and those supported by a partner.

A working age person is economically inactive if they are:

out of work
not actively looking for work
not waiting to start a job
not in full-time education
caring for their family
retired

More than half of the growth in 50- to 69-year-olds leaving work for economic inactivity seen during the pandemic was due to people reportedly leaving work because they were retiring.

Overall, it does not seem as if poor health is the primary driver of these increases in economic inactivity rates. The fraction of workers in their 50s and 60s moving from employment into being economically inactive due to ‘long-term sickness or disability’ has stayed relatively constant, with around 0.3–0.5% of 50- to 69-year-old workers per quarter making this transition both before and after the pandemic. Growth in health-related reasons for leaving the labour force only accounts for 5% of the overall growth in inactivity among this age group. And changes in transitions from employment to inactivity are similar between those with and without a long-standing health condition.

(Sources)
Government website and
ifs.org.uk/publications/rise-economic-inactivity-among-people-their-50s-and-60s

DaisyAnne I have checked and I'm eligible for Housing Benefit and just over £1 a month in council tax relief, but nothing else.

I'm afraid it is galling when I consider how much I've paid in NICs and pension contributions over nearly 50 years. I know NICs don't contribute to a defined pension "pot", but I have paid a damned sight more and for longer than most, so I don't agree that the system is fair. In fact, I can't even believe you think it is.

growstuff

The "economically inactive" aren't just those receiving sickness benefits. They include students, stay at home parents, people taking early retirement and those supported by a partner.

Agreed. But its specifically those economically inactive people who registered for sickness type benefits who will be the subject of the investigation.

maddyone

^and in particular furlough ^

Pammie I certainly don’t think paying furlough to millions of people was Tory mismanagement. Maybe others do, but not me.

I don’t for one moment think that furlough wasn’t necessary in the context of the lockdowns, but looking back the lockdowns went on for far too long. It was mismanagement from that point of view and from the point of view of the checks and balances which were overlooked. Organisations like Liverpool Football Club used taxpayers money to furlough their back room staff while still paying the players full salary. Covid loans were given out with no time to put in place proper fraud prevention. I know speed was of the essence but £250,000 to fund a one man show, and the performer is now nowhere to be found. Really ? Look at the mess we’re in and tell me this was responsible spending of tax payers money.

LizzieDrip

*I'm extremely glad the increase wasn't limited to those on Pension Credit! My total income is just above the Pension Credit threshold, so I wouldn't have received anything. I most certainly do need an increase.*

I know what you mean growstuff. I’m also just above the threshold for any benefits so currently get nothing (apart from pension). On a personal level, yes those in our situation do need the increase. I really don’t know what the answer is to make the system fairer - I was merely posing the ‘pension credit’ idea. I’m sure you will agree that many wealthy pensioners will benefit from this rise - is that fair? As I say, I don’t have an answer myself.

You can, separately, apply for those things that are automatic for those on Pension Credit. You can apply to the Council and may get a proportion of your Council Tax "Supported". You can also apply for Low Income National Health Support. Again, you may get a something. There are a few other areas too.

Some other benefits can "tip" you into Pension Credit. It is possible for Attendance allowance to do this and a few others. If you do get a benefit of any sort, it's worth rechecking. The cut-off isn't as sharp as people think.

However, you may be sufficiently above the thresholds and will be for PC if you are on a full New State Pension. It is calculated to be the old pension + pension credit so you would not to be able to get that twice but might be eligible for the other benefits.

The system is fair, in my opinion. Those who pay get a pension. Those who meet the criteria can claim benefits because they have paid to insure this through NI, and those who have paid into personal pension get that. I'm not sure how it could be fairer.