A boost for Brexit?

Dinahmo I agree that it's not necessarily your degree which will get you a job, but I can guarantee that a degree in some subjects will open more doors for new graduates.

The father of one of my former tutees is a director of a Magic Circle law firm. They don't even look at applications unless they're from a very small group of universities.

Accountancy firms have been offering apprenticeships to 18 year old school leavers for some years (they're an exception). It was one of the options my son considered before deciding that finance wasn't for him.

Casdon

growstuff

Casdon

growstuff

I don't really accept the connection between apprenticeships and Brexit. The UK has been poor at offering high quality "vocational" education for as long as I can remember. In the past organisations like the Coal Board, BT and the services used to be responsible for training many young people to a high level, but this has not been replaced, apart from some individual initiatives such as Stansted Airport College. Unfortunately, this was hit by Covid, when the airport was virtually closed down.

There is absolutely no reason why the UK couldn't have developed better vocational education years ago - EU or not.

There’s a system in Wales for all apprentice schemes, administered through the Government website, isn’t there an English equivalent to that?

Have you ever looked at what's available in detail? Yes, there is a scheme in England, but it's pitiful.

It’s actually pretty good in Wales, I know two young people who have benefitted from it, and they run it at my daughter’s workplace very successfully. It might be an ‘at scale’ issue in England, just too big and unwieldy to run at a national level, would it work better if it was at a regional level, maybe more employers would sign up then?

Do they offer Level 3 and 4 apprenticeships? Wales on average has lower educational achievement than England and there are more pupils who haven't achieved Level 2 in GCSEs by the age of 16, so there's a greater need for young people to reach some kind of meaningful qualification, not necessarily in traditional academic subjects. There's also government funding for pupils to reach Level 2 - not sure how that works with a devolved administration.

Katie59

growstuff

Grantanow

I agree. Further and vocational education has been the poor relation of the university sector for far too long. It is one thing that puts us behind Germany and other European countries in training tradesmen and women and technicians of all kinds. Most politicians have no idea about it because they have almost all been through the universities.

And those who send their children to public schools wouldn't dream of thinking that doing an apprenticeship is as good as going to a prestigious university. Until that happens, we're sorting young people into sheep and goats from an early age.

If you mean “Public Schools” meaning Eaton or Winchester then probably not, the less academic students are likely to join daddy’s business or join the armed forces.
If you are thinking of “Private” schools I know a few that leave at 16 and go that to a college that trains them for their career choice, that actually works very well, classroom theory and periodic work placements, popular with students too.

Yes, I do mean Eton and Winchester ... and all the other public schools. How many people have you met from Eton or Winchester? They're more likely to become politicians or go into finance these days. They're trained to be entitled leaders from the start.

Why shouldn't they become plumbers - or girls from St Pauls Girls' become care workers? Surely, the same arguments apply to them as anybody else.

If "ordinary" people want to break down the power structures by which the country is governed, they need to ambitious for themselves and take on the entitled. They have the intelligence, but not the "oiling" (words of a former High Master of Wellington).

growstuff

Casdon

growstuff

Casdon

growstuff

I don't really accept the connection between apprenticeships and Brexit. The UK has been poor at offering high quality "vocational" education for as long as I can remember. In the past organisations like the Coal Board, BT and the services used to be responsible for training many young people to a high level, but this has not been replaced, apart from some individual initiatives such as Stansted Airport College. Unfortunately, this was hit by Covid, when the airport was virtually closed down.

There is absolutely no reason why the UK couldn't have developed better vocational education years ago - EU or not.

There’s a system in Wales for all apprentice schemes, administered through the Government website, isn’t there an English equivalent to that?

Have you ever looked at what's available in detail? Yes, there is a scheme in England, but it's pitiful.

It’s actually pretty good in Wales, I know two young people who have benefitted from it, and they run it at my daughter’s workplace very successfully. It might be an ‘at scale’ issue in England, just too big and unwieldy to run at a national level, would it work better if it was at a regional level, maybe more employers would sign up then?

Do they offer Level 3 and 4 apprenticeships? Wales on average has lower educational achievement than England and there are more pupils who haven't achieved Level 2 in GCSEs by the age of 16, so there's a greater need for young people to reach some kind of meaningful qualification, not necessarily in traditional academic subjects. There's also government funding for pupils to reach Level 2 - not sure how that works with a devolved administration.

This sort of thing?
www.cardiff.ac.uk/engineering/courses/degree-apprenticeship
I’m no expert on education, but there is loads of information about levels of apprenticeship online, and it appears that the government site acts as a coordination point, with Careers Wales steering young people into the best option for them. There isn’t a lack of opportunity by the looks of it, but there may be a lack of uptake - I’ll see if I can find out.

The “elite” will always want their children to be leaders, it’s all about power and influence, that’s why they pay the high school fees. In terms of ability they are a mixed bunch, only the brightest have a future in finance, I don’t think you will find any with a bag of spanners fixing your plumbing or any other physical labour. Eventually the money gets spent and the decendants do actually work for a living.
A local aristocratic family spent all the cash about 100 yrs ago, when the old earl died the family pile was leased out and the young Earl now runs a dog food manufacturing business in Australia.
The mighty do fall.

Casdon That kind of course isn't really an apprenticeship. It's a part-time degree with integrated work experience. The entry requirement is two A levels or equivalent. A number of universities run those kind of courses.

Katie59 Your first sentence explains exactly what I've been claiming. If I were an ambitious and bright 18 year old, I'd want the chance for power and influence too, which is precisely why I'd opt for a traditional university course rather than an apprenticeship in a practical skill. I'm not saying that's right, but it's the way our society works.

If you are a high flier with a first in a relevant subject you won’t have a problem, the others find it more difficult to find a graduate post. An introduction from a parent may well get you an interview then it’s up to you to make a good impression.
For those with ambition to start their own business, capital is always an issue, having parent who can provide the capital makes an enormous difference.

Banks do not lend without security, would be entrepreneurs have no equity of their own to provide, there are thousands that are frustrated by lack of capital. That is the way that the wealthy retain control of power.

Of course those few that do manage to make it big entirely by their own effort become part of the wealthy establishment, and help their own family, that’s the way it works.

Katie59

The “elite” will always want their children to be leaders, it’s all about power and influence, that’s why they pay the high school fees. In terms of ability they are a mixed bunch, only the brightest have a future in finance, I don’t think you will find any with a bag of spanners fixing your plumbing or any other physical labour. Eventually the money gets spent and the decendants do actually work for a living.
A local aristocratic family spent all the cash about 100 yrs ago, when the old earl died the family pile was leased out and the young Earl now runs a dog food manufacturing business in Australia.
The mighty do fall.

Are you in Suffolk?

Dinahmo

Katie59

The “elite” will always want their children to be leaders, it’s all about power and influence, that’s why they pay the high school fees. In terms of ability they are a mixed bunch, only the brightest have a future in finance, I don’t think you will find any with a bag of spanners fixing your plumbing or any other physical labour. Eventually the money gets spent and the decendants do actually work for a living.
A local aristocratic family spent all the cash about 100 yrs ago, when the old earl died the family pile was leased out and the young Earl now runs a dog food manufacturing business in Australia.
The mighty do fall.

Are you in Suffolk?

No midlands if that’s a clue

There must be 2 Aussie earls then. The Rous family owned an estate at Henham in Suffolk for 500 years. Back in 2003 the Earl of Stradbroke put the estate up for sale - finishing his family's links with Suffolk. That's why I asked if you lived in Suffolk.

The Earl changed his mind and the estate is now manged by one of his sons and the annual Latitude festival is held there.

Katie59

The “elite” will always want their children to be leaders, it’s all about power and influence, that’s why they pay the high school fees. In terms of ability they are a mixed bunch, only the brightest have a future in finance, I don’t think you will find any with a bag of spanners fixing your plumbing or any other physical labour. Eventually the money gets spent and the decendants do actually work for a living.
A local aristocratic family spent all the cash about 100 yrs ago, when the old earl died the family pile was leased out and the young Earl now runs a dog food manufacturing business in Australia.
The mighty do fall.

Ashby-de-la-Zouch! (Hastings- who should be King had the line of succession been followed 'correctly')

Fleurpepper

Katie59

The “elite” will always want their children to be leaders, it’s all about power and influence, that’s why they pay the high school fees. In terms of ability they are a mixed bunch, only the brightest have a future in finance, I don’t think you will find any with a bag of spanners fixing your plumbing or any other physical labour. Eventually the money gets spent and the decendants do actually work for a living.
A local aristocratic family spent all the cash about 100 yrs ago, when the old earl died the family pile was leased out and the young Earl now runs a dog food manufacturing business in Australia.
The mighty do fall.

Ashby-de-la-Zouch! (Hastings- who should be King had the line of succession been followed 'correctly')

Yes, Simon Abney-Hastings, the 15th Earl of Loudon (a Plantagenet) could be King of England (not the United Kingdom) had the succession been followed correctly - allegedly.

There was a programme on TV about his father, the 14th Earl, a few years ago.

A different Earl to the one Katie59 mentioned, I think.

I was referring to the Earl of Warwick, Guy Greville who flogged the castle off and moved to Australia, pretty dramatic at the time. No doubt cash had been hived off over the years to fund the exit, he still holds the hereditary title of Earl as will his son in due course.

Many of the old aristocratic families don’t use their title these days, especially the European ones but they are very influential in business circles as well as politics.

I think the 14th Earl of Loudon didn't use his title; he became an Australian farmer and I can just imagine the ribaldry he would receive if he'd tried to 'Lord' it over the locals in a rural community. However, his friends and neighbours knew and called him 'Kingy' 🤴

I shall look him up Katie59! 😀

Anyhow, back to Brexit.

So only a third of those who voted for Brexit still support it. I am amazed it is that high, tbh.

I'd love to see the statistics- what proportion of 'leavers' have died since 2016, as compared to 'remainers'.

Callistemon21

I shall look him up Katie59! 😀

Only if you’re travelling to Perth, currently he has moved on to mining interests.
😃
Amazing what you can find out googling

The government’s next fleet of armoured ministerial cars will be made in Germany because supply chain issues hampered by Brexit mean no British manufacturer is able to meet its requirements, The Independent has learned.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/uk-ministerial-government-cars-made-in-germany-audi-b2250544.html

Unfortunately the German brands have secured a much more reliable supply of technology and there seems to be little waiting time for many cars. Korean brands also are much more available.

I'd love to see the statistics- what proportion of 'leavers' have died since 2016, as compared to 'remainers'

That's a bit morbid! 😲

You don't think there's a hit squad going round assassinating leave voters prior to another referendum, do you?

t.co/Zu76xkwAdj
Brexit means that British’s ministerial cars can no longer be made in Britain ! We are now having to buy them from Germany. Another Brexit Bonus.

Yes but Brexit was all about 'take back control' and now the Leavers have it, but what good has it done them?

Callistemon21

^I'd love to see the statistics- what proportion of 'leavers' have died since 2016, as compared to 'remainers'^

That's a bit morbid! 😲

You don't think there's a hit squad going round assassinating leave voters prior to another referendum, do you?

Simple demographics!

varian

The government’s next fleet of armoured ministerial cars will be made in Germany because supply chain issues hampered by Brexit mean no British manufacturer is able to meet its requirements, The Independent has learned.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/uk-ministerial-government-cars-made-in-germany-audi-b2250544.html

I was just going to post that.

Also our car production has fallen dramatically.

We were warned this would happen.

Project fear they all said😡😡😡