A boost for Brexit?

^ Start paying waiters a 'living wage' and the cost of a meal out sky-rockets.^

You could look at it another way and say that the restaurant owner's profits fall. This 'might' not be the calamity that it's cracked up to be...

The introduction of the minimum wage was accompanied by cries of doom about price inflation, but I don't think that actually happened...

There is something wrong with this world if the poor are to be kept continually poor while company and individuals' profits rise and rise.

The number of billionaires in the UK rises year on year. Tell me where their money comes from..

(N.B £1billion is a huge amount of money; 1,000 times more than a millionaire has, and we used to think they were incredibly wealthy)

news.sky.com/story/sunday-times-rich-list-2022-uk-has-a-record-number-of-billionaires-12617181

Great post undines.

Good for your grandsons Popsie. I'm glad it worked out for them. Do you have any granddaughters? Have they had similar success?

We have a system in this country where those who make decisions about everybody's lives are generally those who have been to university. Are people saying that university (and therefore only these influential jobs) should be reserved for a certain kind of person?

If a young person has the personal skills to be a "mover and shaker" and influence the lives of others, I think they should be given and encouraged to take up the opportunity. I do not believe that people in senior roles necessarily are more intelligent or innately able, but they are "oiled" from an early age to believe they are. The outcome is that others then moan that some kind of elite is in charge of their lives. The truth is that some young people are discouraged by parents, grandparents and peers from aspiring to the jobs taken by the very people they moan about.

It amazes me that anyone is still sticking up for Brexit. It's ideology gone mad. Even if long term (whatever long term may be - 50 years?) the UK manages to haul itself back up to be on a par with the other G7, what have we proved? Immigration is now higher than ever, it's just not from Europe. We have no really good trade deals established and I think we are only at the start of a long period of difficulty.

We used to get 'cheap labour' because living standards in parts of Europe were/are lower than here - for instance, in Prague it is normal for professional, highly educated people to live in a small flat with shared kitchen. (or at least it was six years ago, when I was there). Gradually this is/was levelling up, anyway, as I understand, and we would have had to adjust, but gradually.

It's crazy to sever links with our nearest neighbours with the world the way it is - we need to work together, in every way. And let's not forget that Brexit was only ever on the table to bring to prominence those that espoused it, namely Johnson, the arch-opportunist who was anti-Brexit a few years before, but spotted his chance to ride high on 'anti-foreigner' sentiments. Let's not forget that we were told utter lies - remember the red bus and the stuff about how much we would save, and be able to pour into the NHS as a result of our independence?

I'm very sorry Kier Starmer is taking this attitude. I think if he promised to try to go back into the EU, or at least work harder to get us better deals with the EU, it would be good for his party. They are turning into a slightly different brand of Tory - the only obvious differences at the moment being that they have fewer scandals, thugs, liars and perverts (as far as we know!) in their ranks.

And I'm all for people being paid a 'living wage' but that's going to take time and planning. Start paying waiters a 'living wage' and the cost of a meal out sky-rockets. We eat out quite frequently but are cutting down now, because of the expense. I'm sure we aren't the only ones, and this will lead to restaurants and pubs closing down and more out-of-work catering staff who don't get a wage at all.

None of this has been thought through or planned for. Brexit was not 'thought through'. To forge on with this ideology is madness, in my opinion.

Thank you for the confirmation that very few people receiving Universal Credit are better off than those working full-time. It's actually a nightmare for those on low incomes, especially the self-employed. Even if they qualify for a small amount of Universal Credit, the situation can change from one month to the next. Even those receiving full Universal Credit are hardly receiving enough to pay for the basics. As you write, anybody with a lifestyle beyond basic, is almost certainly not declaring some income, which is fraudulent.

I actually like Kier Starmer. Furthermore we want honesty which I truly believe we may get for the first time in years. The Tory party are finished and they know it. I agree there are too many younger people going to uni for stupid degrees. My two grandsons didn’t go down that route and were made to feel under achievers by teachers and certain people. They are both in engineering apprenticeships earning money whilst learning and attending college. They are financially independent and have passed their driving tests, bought a nice car each and pay their own way. Personally I am proud of their achievements so far but I am the only grandma of those I know whose grandkids haven’t gone to Uni. There is sadly a stigma to this of looking at them as failures in education. What a shame that the country only see people having degrees as being intelligent and will do well. My son didnt do a degree and started as an engineering apprentice. He’s now a Director of a well known company and has done so well. No one should work for a pittance but we need root and branch reform for so much in this completely ruined country.

Cossy I agree with you about care workers. Many are far from "unskilled". They're doing the jobs of junior nurses.

Many decent employers pay for them to do NVQ Level 2 accreditation (equivalent to GCSE). Unfortunately, there aren't many opportunities beyond that.

There aren't many Level 3 or Level 4 care work courses available, even though many care workers have the skills and ability to do them. Unfortunately, even if they do manage to find and complete a course, employers are unwilling to recognise their qualifications with higher pay.

Norah

Affordable childcare is a bit of a misnomer - there is a lot of help via Universal Credit for those on low incomes towards childcare and also government sponsored childcare at nursery level, in some cases from 2 years old, however nurseries are expensive to run as are after school schemes. It’s a tough one and it’s not as if those working there earn great salaries !

On the question of benefits, I’ve recently retired from the DWP and can assure you very few people are “better off” on benefits than actually working if they are able to work full time, and afford childcare. A very large percentage of Universal Credit claimants are either in work on low incomes, in work part time or too unwell to work. Anyone living a good life, ie affording luxuries generally have an income undeclared ! Also I’d argue the point of “unskilled” workers - this could include people like care workers, who in my opinion, are far from unskilled and deserve much higher incomes

Here's a Brexit Boost (?):

UK net migration hits all-time record at 504,000

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-63743259

People arriving in dinghies and seeking asylum represent a very small percentage.

The government's target is to reduce net migration to below 100,000.

The other issue is that there are far more males on Level 3 and Level 4 apprenticeships than Level 2 ones.

Katie59

Part of the pay difference will be that the female apprentices will have childcare responsibilities, more likely to be working short hours and unable to do overtime.
There is no reason at all that a woman doing the same work should be paid less these days, work of the same value is always going to be subjective.

How many 18 year olds straight from school have childcare responsibilities? The truth is that female apprentices are shunted off to work in healthcare or childcare rather than engineering.

I don't understand why females themselves aren't choosing the higher paid options.

If I were to turn back the clock to when I was 18, as a female, I'd choose the university route rather than a traditional female apprenticeship. I might think differently if I were male.

GrannyGravy13

I have never agreed with low paid cheap labour anyone in employment should not have to rely on a top-up from the Government of the day to supplement their income.

Equal emphasis on skills in senior schools just not pushing all into University would also be an advancement in my opinion and go towards easing the UK’s skill shortage.

More recognition and pay for what are deemed low skill but vital jobs would also help, along with affordable childcare for the under fives.

Affordable childcare would surely be beneficial. I can't work out why affordable childcare isn't top of the list for solution.

Well said, Cossy 👏

I see that the CBI/businesses are demanding that the government cease the idea of having a bonfire of EU law.

Cossy, totally agree with you

I think it's very unfair to call art history or media studies degrees "fatuous" or "useless". Education for its own sake is never useless.

That said, the idea that everybody needs to go to university and not do vocational training, or go straight into work, is not one that I agree with.

So long as MPs and media types go on believing that ‘vocational training’ means painting and decorating and that further education and technical colleges are ‘ok for other people's Children’ Britain will lag further and further behind in the sort of skills the country desperately needs, whilst university debt and utterly useless degree level study will increase and increase until everyone in Britain has, and cannot use, an ‘honours’ Degree in the blindingly obvious but utterly useless ‘art history’ or ‘media studies’ or something equally fatuous 🤮

JenniferEccles

As long as we have the ridiculous situation whereby those on benefits get more than they would if they were working, I fear we may have to rely on migrant workers to fill the low paid jobs.

I was astonished to read the other day that there are six million people claiming universal credit.
Six million! How on earth has the welfare state been allowed to mushroom to such an extent?

That’s the first job surely, to get people off benefits and out to work.
Obviously of course there are some who genuinely need help, but to the tune of six million?😮

Most of the people claiming universal credit are claiming in work benefits. Unemployment is at its lowest levels for a long time.

ALL workers, skilled or otherwise, should be paid a living wage and afford a reasonable standard of living. Of course highly skilled and experienced staff should earn more and will continue to do so. My personal belief is that there’s absolutely nothing wrong with economic migration, Brits have been doing this for years. What we need to do, in my humble opinion, is to all understand very clearly the difference between asylum seekers and economic migrants, the latter of whom should only be allowed to enter if they bring with them skills we need, much like the Australian model in a points system, or close relatives here who can financially sponsor them. My personal opinion is that Brexit was a disaster and it won the election for Johnson as there were a fairly large percentage of people who didn’t understand the consequences and a small percentage who simply voted on the racist belief that “Jonny foreigner” would be sent “home” My husband is Irish, still has an Irish passport and came to this country at 3 with his parents who were economic migrant. I’m yet to understand any policies brought in by the EU, including many employment and environmental policies that damaged this country

Part of the pay difference will be that the female apprentices will have childcare responsibilities, more likely to be working short hours and unable to do overtime.
There is no reason at all that a woman doing the same work should be paid less these days, work of the same value is always going to be subjective.

For those who don't like links, here's an extract:

"Females mainly work across only five sectors whilst male apprentices mainly work across 11 sectors. Later research produced in 2018 by YWT reported that for every one female apprentice in construction there were 50 males, and in engineering one female for every 25 male apprentices.

Pay: The Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy produces a biennial Apprenticeship Pay Survey which in January 2020 reported that the pay gap for level 2 and 3 apprentices is widening. In 2016 the gap was 3.6% but by 2018/19 it stood at 6%. Male apprentices were more likely than female apprentices to have worked overtime (64% compared with 57% respectively). At Levels 2 and 3 apprentices in receipt of non-compliant pay was more common among women (21%) compared with men (17%). Male apprentices were more likely to have received an increase in pay (64%) compared with female apprentices (42%).

The picture around pay is compounded by the fact that the sectors where female apprentices are most highly represented are often those that attract lower rates of pay, are arguably less valued and offer less stable employment prospects."

Gender Gap in Apprenticeships:

www.fenews.co.uk/fe-voices/gender-gap-in-apprenticeships/#:~:text=Females%20mainly%20work%20across%20only,for%20every%2025%20male%20apprentices.

In addition to dissuading young people from going to university, how about persuading more young women to go into traditionally male jobs?

I wouldn't want to work in the cold and rain either ... and I bet most men would say the same.

Jackiest

growstuff

Next time you go past roadworks, count the number of female workers.

Yes there are fewer women than men. Women have free choice to do whatever trade they like. If few choose to do these trades they should not be forced to. I would not want to work out in the cold and rain. As time goes on probably more will choose them. I have noticed that a couple of my rufuse collectors are women. Things are changeing.

I wonder why they don't choose these trades when they are generally better paid than traditionally female "trades".