A boost for Brexit?

growstuff

Casdon

growstuff

I don't really accept the connection between apprenticeships and Brexit. The UK has been poor at offering high quality "vocational" education for as long as I can remember. In the past organisations like the Coal Board, BT and the services used to be responsible for training many young people to a high level, but this has not been replaced, apart from some individual initiatives such as Stansted Airport College. Unfortunately, this was hit by Covid, when the airport was virtually closed down.

There is absolutely no reason why the UK couldn't have developed better vocational education years ago - EU or not.

There’s a system in Wales for all apprentice schemes, administered through the Government website, isn’t there an English equivalent to that?

Have you ever looked at what's available in detail? Yes, there is a scheme in England, but it's pitiful.

It’s actually pretty good in Wales, I know two young people who have benefitted from it, and they run it at my daughter’s workplace very successfully. It might be an ‘at scale’ issue in England, just too big and unwieldy to run at a national level, would it work better if it was at a regional level, maybe more employers would sign up then?

growstuff

Grantanow

I agree. Further and vocational education has been the poor relation of the university sector for far too long. It is one thing that puts us behind Germany and other European countries in training tradesmen and women and technicians of all kinds. Most politicians have no idea about it because they have almost all been through the universities.

And those who send their children to public schools wouldn't dream of thinking that doing an apprenticeship is as good as going to a prestigious university. Until that happens, we're sorting young people into sheep and goats from an early age.

If you mean “Public Schools” meaning Eaton or Winchester then probably not, the less academic students are likely to join daddy’s business or join the armed forces.
If you are thinking of “Private” schools I know a few that leave at 16 and go that to a college that trains them for their career choice, that actually works very well, classroom theory and periodic work placements, popular with students too.

No connection between Brexit and apprenticeships, the problem is that students are not prepared for the world of work. Where you turn up on time every day and follow instructions, at the same time you learn the skills needed to do the job. If you aim to be an electrician, hairdresser, car mechanic or many other trades it’s going to take several years
to qualify.

Employers want more apprentices but they expect commitment, unfortunately many dont finish the first week, being away from their mates and abandoning social media during work time is just too much for them.
Some are very good, my brother has an 18 yr old apprentice, always on time follows instructions and leaves his phone in his pocket, a pleasure to work with.

Casdon

growstuff

I don't really accept the connection between apprenticeships and Brexit. The UK has been poor at offering high quality "vocational" education for as long as I can remember. In the past organisations like the Coal Board, BT and the services used to be responsible for training many young people to a high level, but this has not been replaced, apart from some individual initiatives such as Stansted Airport College. Unfortunately, this was hit by Covid, when the airport was virtually closed down.

There is absolutely no reason why the UK couldn't have developed better vocational education years ago - EU or not.

There’s a system in Wales for all apprentice schemes, administered through the Government website, isn’t there an English equivalent to that?

Have you ever looked at what's available in detail? Yes, there is a scheme in England, but it's pitiful.

Grantanow

I agree. Further and vocational education has been the poor relation of the university sector for far too long. It is one thing that puts us behind Germany and other European countries in training tradesmen and women and technicians of all kinds. Most politicians have no idea about it because they have almost all been through the universities.

And those who send their children to public schools wouldn't dream of thinking that doing an apprenticeship is as good as going to a prestigious university. Until that happens, we're sorting young people into sheep and goats from an early age.

Yes, it is difficult to blame the EU for what is so wrong in this country, but the Tories have had a good go at blaming covid19 and the Ukraine invasion, and many of their supporters not only believe this nonsense, they keep on peddling it. I think that it will soon be unavoidable, other than by those completely taken in by the cult of Brexit, that the whole thing has been an economic, social and financial disaster other than for the proponents who benefit from it. It just cannot be ignored anymore.

growstuff

I don't really accept the connection between apprenticeships and Brexit. The UK has been poor at offering high quality "vocational" education for as long as I can remember. In the past organisations like the Coal Board, BT and the services used to be responsible for training many young people to a high level, but this has not been replaced, apart from some individual initiatives such as Stansted Airport College. Unfortunately, this was hit by Covid, when the airport was virtually closed down.

There is absolutely no reason why the UK couldn't have developed better vocational education years ago - EU or not.

There’s a system in Wales for all apprentice schemes, administered through the Government website, isn’t there an English equivalent to that?

I agree. Further and vocational education has been the poor relation of the university sector for far too long. It is one thing that puts us behind Germany and other European countries in training tradesmen and women and technicians of all kinds. Most politicians have no idea about it because they have almost all been through the universities.

I don't really accept the connection between apprenticeships and Brexit. The UK has been poor at offering high quality "vocational" education for as long as I can remember. In the past organisations like the Coal Board, BT and the services used to be responsible for training many young people to a high level, but this has not been replaced, apart from some individual initiatives such as Stansted Airport College. Unfortunately, this was hit by Covid, when the airport was virtually closed down.

There is absolutely no reason why the UK couldn't have developed better vocational education years ago - EU or not.

Calendargirl

^No talk of apprenticeships these days^.

I don’t agree, there are apprenticeships out there, but they are still seen as second class by many.

My GS is in the Upper V1 at the local Grammar school. He is not keen on university, the cost etc, and is thinking about apprenticeships. When asked at a meeting at school how many were interested in apprenticeships, only GS and one other person raised their hand.

University is seen as the option by the school. Anything else is looked down on and frankly, not encouraged.

Sorry, but I disagree with you. There's a real shortage of quality apprenticeships at Levels 3 and 4 in many fields, especially in traditionally "female" jobs.

I went through this with my on son not that long ago. He was having a wobble about going to university, even though he was predicted (and achieved) stellar A level results. He was offered an apprenticeship with the Bank of England, but decided against going into finance. We had a stash of information about various apprenticeships, but the majority were for Level 2 (the equivalent of 5 GCSEs) and some seemed of dubious quality.

There's a real gap for high quality advanced apprenticeships. The UK needs to look at what Germany and some other countries have been doing for years.

I am so sorry to see the UK in such a desperate, self inflicted mess, with no way out. I am surprised to see news articles of suggestions of rejoining the SM/CU though. The idea that this is even a remote possibility, is another example of British exceptionalism akin to brexit vote that took you out in the first place. There really is no way back now and the UK needs to put all it's efforts into adjusting to it's new status, work to improve the TCA you left with and making the best of it.

I suppose one positive consequence of Brexit is that it removes the possibility of blaming the EU for all that has gone wrong with the UK. We see more clearly that the Tory government of the past 12 years is really the culprit despite their attempts to blame the French, asylum seekers, the low paid, Lefty lawyers, etc. The laughable election of Truss just shows how they had to scrape the bottom of the barrel. Sunak is out of his depth - a one trick pony - supported, if that is the right word, by a bunch of third rate Ministers.

Fleurpepper

Do you remember that truly awful 'advert' with an older woman with 'flu' taken to hospital - and all the hugely racist under (over)tones- and how, outside the EU, she would be cured by British only nurses in a giffy. That was truly despicable.

I saw it and remember thinking at the time how racist it was.

www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/12/21/forcing-eu-citizens-reapply-right-work-uk-unlawful-high-court/

Forcing EU citizens to reapply for the right to work in UK is unlawful, High Court rules

Wasn't that another of those which was only shown to targeted audiences? I've only seen it since the referendum.

I don't remember it because I, nor anyone I know, ever saw it.

Obviously none of us are part of the targeted audience. Perhaps only those who search for those types of links on Facebook saw it.
Hopefully it has been deleted as it sounds like something circulating amongst extremist groups.

Wasn't that another of those which was only shown to targeted audiences? I've only seen it since the referendum.

The Digital, Media & Sport Select Committee did a report on the 'dark' adverts shown by Leave campaigns during the referendum campaign. It included as an appendix lnks to about 100 or more ads shown on facebook. Oddly enough, these links became dead once Johnson became PM...

Do you remember that truly awful 'advert' with an older woman with 'flu' taken to hospital - and all the hugely racist under (over)tones- and how, outside the EU, she would be cured by British only nurses in a giffy. That was truly despicable.

The ad has been updated so we can see how these promises are being kept...

twitter.com/larryandpaul/status/1592067039480680451

A reminder of what the Vote Leave campaign promised in a facebook ad that was only seen by those undecided about how to vote in the 2016 referendum

twitter.com/LouisHenwood/status/1594316160530776064

Hundreds if not thousands of businesses will have lost money because of the difficulties with exports now. Thousands of entertainers, musicians and actors etc will also have lost work because of the loss of freedom of movement. The very famous musicians continue to tour in Europe but they have teams of experts behind them to arrange the tours and to comply with the rules. The rest don't, or cannot afford to pay for the advice.

A big shout out for ITV News at Ten that finally reported on the £40 billion hit to tax revenue caused by Brexit, and the fact that the economy has shrunk by 5.5 percent because of Brexit. Let’s hope the conspiracy of silence over Brexit seems to be coming to an end. Two businesses were consulted, the Cheshire Cheese Company which has lost £300,000 in sales, and the Star Jewellery Company that has lost European business. Now let’s hope the Mone and Harding PPE scandals get acknowledged.

MaizieD

varian

www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/dec/18/anger-brexit-tories-red-wall-conservatives-reform-uk-party-immigration

Interesting article, varian. I wonder just how much support Reform actually has in the light of current polling showing more people against than pro Brexit.

I was enchanted by the belief that the current government is left of centre 'socialist'... 😂

My guess would be about 25% (plucked out of the air, I admit). However, that would be enough to split the anti-Conservative vote on the fptp system.

varian

www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/dec/18/anger-brexit-tories-red-wall-conservatives-reform-uk-party-immigration

Interesting article, varian. I wonder just how much support Reform actually has in the light of current polling showing more people against than pro Brexit.

I was enchanted by the belief that the current government is left of centre 'socialist'... 😂

www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/dec/18/anger-brexit-tories-red-wall-conservatives-reform-uk-party-immigration