Bullying, harassment, London Fire Brigade

I looked at the comments on Microsoft News on this article.

Almost to a man - and it was mainly men - they pooh-poohed it, denied it, and suggested that the problem was with 'woke lefties' with an 'agenda'. Some just didn't believe it at all and said it was the media (woke, naturally) just wanting to stir up trouble.

It's only when you read such comments that you realise there's still a huge number of misogynists and racists among us. It's ignorance in its purest and simplest form. And the stubbornness - the refusal to accept facts or evidence - that goes along with such ignorance.

These men have mothers, wives and daughters. It boggles the mind. And it's depressing,very depressing.

I didn't comment, didn't argue. Sometimes ignorance and prejudice is so overwhelming that it's pointless. I just hope these individuals haven't handed down their warped views to the next generation and that they die along with them.

I agree this will take a very long time to resolve. One problem is likely to be recruitment - we have an ageing population - to replace those sacked. We need a fully effective fire service and the staffing capability to respond to calls may outweigh other considerations in the short term. Just saying.

It sadly does not surprise me.When you have institutions steeped in traditional hierarchy for decades, who then have to make a show of accepting change, it is going to take decades before such institutions reach a point where they can no longer continue with such hatred and in such a despicable manner. I always thought positive discrimination set up the various minorities to either join in/shut up and put up/leave. So, it’s because people didn’t leave why this is in the headlines isn’t it

Did anyone hear the recent Woman’s Hour interview with the woman who had worked in the submarines. It was shocking.

well that's it silverlining48 their loved women relatives.
but it still says something about those who dont merely tolerate,

but actively take part.

its bullying and abuse pure and simple and they need to be called out, and imo in those services, engage in active awareness training. Like having to truly "hear" their victims alongside their fellow workers.

Like having to be exposed to their N and D about how they have been at work. Shame them. Locker room mentality is not OK any more.

The Navy is being investigated because of similar behaviour. Police too, no doubt the army , all male dominated where it seems ok to behave badly. Do any of the men involved think how they would feel if it were their daughters sisters mothers. being treated with so little respect.

You’re right tickingbird
All the services, police, firemen, armed forces are a lot the same.Why? I think because they have to face danger and see a load of awful things.
So they use banter and macho stuff to hide feelings behind?

Firemen are fit, it goes with the job but wherever there’s male dominated groups there’s this type of behaviour. It’s the same in the police, the armed forces et al. In the US the college ‘jocks’ engage in hazing and I know of young men and boys out of school going through repeated humiliation as newcomers in garages, workshops, even a small fireplace business. If it’s male dominated this is how they carry on - about time it was outlawed.

Firemen have always been a pretty macho bunch, no surprises that behavior is sometimes over the top and inappropriate. One of my cousins is a retained fireman, a fitness fanatic and competes in Iron Man competitions, no suggestion of anything unpleasant with him.
We do need a capable Fire and Rescue service, just weed out the idiots, there are plenty of others willing to take their jobs.

Herd mentality, not hard

tickingbird

I think it’s how men behave when together in large groups. It’s overgrown schoolboy bullying cloaked as banter. It’s vile and needs stamping on.

I agree that could be why it has happened and is perpetuated, that some, not all, men do behave like this as they think they might be perceived as weak if they didn't. It's a hard mentality.

What are they like when they go home?
Quite different, probably. If married, good husbands and fathers and their families might be shocked to know they were involved in any of this bullying.

I think it’s how men behave when together in large groups. It’s overgrown schoolboy bullying cloaked as banter. It’s vile and needs stamping on.

I could barely credit what I was reading. My husband and I were only just discussing it you would think it was the 1960/1970s not 2022. He couldn't understand their mentality as no men we know would think any of it was remotely acceptable or funny.

Shocking report. I’m speechless.

I agree Wyllow. There is no place in public services for racists and bigots. And this applies to the managers, for not dealing with the problem.

If all employers held a zero tolerance policy to bigotry and discrimination, it would stamp these attitudes out a lot sooner.

Wha happened was the managers to whom it was reported to, instead of taken action against the perpetrators, moved the victims on across London to other stations.

They are going to suspend or sack the worst offenders, and they deserve it.

I don't think punishment in any form is the answer for people who behave like this as it is only likely to make them more resentful and unpleasant.

What they're doing is showing their ignorance, so need educating, preferably from an early age.

I was discussing this with my Dh earlier and saying I didn’t understand the mindset that makes someone think they can act in such an obnoxious manner. Then I thought, I’m glad I didn’t understand the mindset, because I wouldn’t want to think such things.

How can anyone in this day and age think that behaviour is acceptable? I don’t know what can be done about it, because it’s not something anyone in my family or friends would dream of doing. I guess if they witness it, they can challenge it, though even that might be risky nowadays.