Deaths in Scottish prisons at record high.

It was long before our time varian! Reformation, I think.

Really? Nobody told my Sunday School Superintendant!

Pax!!

But Christmas was banned in Scotland!

I agree volver -it's the Season of Goodwill

And I don't attribute all blame for everything to the English.

So I guess we're about even in misrepresenting each other's posts.

I have never claimed that the Scots do everything wrong volver

I am a Scot and now and then I'm not wrong.

who doesn't react badly to the narrator having an English accent.

Really varian Really? You must wonder how I manage to listen to DH speaking without running screaming from the room.

Anyway. The Darien venture was a disaster. Patterson (A Scot who also founded the Bank of England) convinced a lot of people to give him money, including little old ladies who had only pennies to give. They completely misjudged what was needed to build a colony there. It was an ill-fated idea from the start and led to a de facto famine in Scotland in the late 1600s that eventually led to the Union. Patterson had his fingers in that little event too.

So instead of making out that the Scots do everything wrong, try to be more realistic. Acknowledge that the English government of the time were just a wee bit behind it having to happen in the first place.

You are correct volver - many Scots were persuaded to invest in Paterson's ill fated scheme. However you are way off the mark in trying , is always, to attribute all the blame to the English. That is just a very small part of the story.

Here is a twenty minute history lesson, worth listening to for anyone curious about the Darien Scheme and who doesn't react badly to the narrator having an English accent.

schoolshistory.org.uk/topics/british-empire/making-of-the-united-kingdom-foundations-of-empire/darien-scheme/

In the early 1600s, Scotland had been trading with Asia and Africa. During this time of harsh economic rivalry in Europe, England thought the Scots were getting a bit too wealthy. They slapped down the 1660 Navigation Act. This required that all trade goods to and from England or any English possession or territory in Asia, Africa, or the Americas must be transported in English ships sailed by an English captain with a crew of at least 75 percent Englishmen. This stripped Scotland of its economic independence and led to increased dependence on England.

www.historicmysteries.com/darien-scheme/#:~:text=However%2C%20a%20lesser-known%20attempt%2C%20called%20the%20Darien%20Scheme%2C,a%20union%20that%20many%20Scots%20did%20not%20want.

Everybody invested, not just the aristocracy.

volver

Did they teach you that England sabotaged Scotland's attempts to have a footing in the Americas at the Darien colony, which meant that Scotland became bankrupt and had to submit to the demands of the English and the Scottish aristocracy to become part of a "Union" with the much larger and more powerful England? Which the vast majority of Scots didn't want but which lined the pockets of the Scottish aristocracy who were bribed by the English Parliament?

Probably not.

The Darien Scheme was a foolhardy venture and its failure was due to a combination of factors such as tropical disease and bad planning. It is by no means proven to have been due to sabotage by the English or anyone else. However as so many of the Scottish aristocracy had invested in it, its failure did leave Scotland virtually bankcrupt and did eventually lead to the Union of the Parliaments forming the basis of our United Kingdom.

www.gla.ac.uk/myglasgow/library/files/special/exhibns/month/may2005.html

Or, get independence so we can get those sorted 😏

I don’t think Nicola Sturgeon can think about more than one thing at a time. Failures galore. Education, NHS , ferries etc. all the basics … get these sorted before Independence

Oh, that started so well.

I don't think that England are responsible for (all) Scotland's problems, not at all.

Nicola's "obsessed" with independence because that's what we ask her to be "obsessed" with. Being a woman, she's able to think about more than one thing at a time.

Oh dear Paddyan, England is not responsible for Scotland’s problems. I would look closer to home, Nicola is so obsessed with Independence she hasn’t time for anything else, drugs in and out of prison is rife as you know. L

James VI didn't unite England and Scotland. Any more than we are currently "united" with New Zealand because we happen to have the same King.

The Union of Parliaments happened 100 years after James took to the throne of England.

He couldn't get out of here quick enough.

Good effort at bringing Sturgeon in when its completely irrelevant, though.

Yes , after centuries of fighting, many Scots supported James vi of Scotland in his aim to unite Scotland and England. The Union with England was unusual in a way because unions at that time were usually by conquest or marriage.This was the King of a small country, Scotland, succeeding to the throne of a larger country, England. This word “colony “ is one of the many phrases and slogans coined by the SNP spin doctors … Nicola Sturgeon now has a record number of 15 advisers, trebled since Donald Dewar’s time . Taxpayers footing the bill of course. But that’s for another discussion.

Glorianny

The death rate in English and Welsh prisons is increasing as well, so perhaps it is just a case of us catching up with Scotland. It is a tragedy. The issues in prisons are so complex and drug use is just a part of that. I have no idea if it is the fault of the Scottish government or what part the Westminster government have played, but crowing over the figures or scoring political points on this doesn't seem acceptable to me.

Totally unacceptable.

Did they teach you that England sabotaged Scotland's attempts to have a footing in the Americas at the Darien colony, which meant that Scotland became bankrupt and had to submit to the demands of the English and the Scottish aristocracy to become part of a "Union" with the much larger and more powerful England? Which the vast majority of Scots didn't want but which lined the pockets of the Scottish aristocracy who were bribed by the English Parliament?

Probably not.

Oh dear paddyann surely you are not still claiming that Scotland is a colony.

When I was at school we had two history books - a heavy tome called "The Story of Scotland" and a slim companion volume called "The Story of England"

We were taught that in 1603 the King of Scotland took over the English throne.

I agree Ladyhonoria, and some work on the links between head injury and violent crime in men.

The most celebrated Holiday in the WORLD is Independence day for The DIS united kingdom ..let that sink in!!

Grantanow You do understand that Ms Sturgeon was voted in on a core policy of Indepnedence by a majority.5 times in a row .
Its not STURGEON who is "obsessed" by independece its the POEPLE of Scotland .A Times poll this week put the igure at 92% for Idependence .The pollster who called me told me every call answered was a YES vote ,he said the figures were going through the roof ....that was a government poll by IPSOS mori ...When I asked him when it would be published he said it wont be ,its just for Westminster information
In other words WM knows Independence is coming and they are running shit scared .
Can you name me ANY of the colonies who left ...and there are over 60 ...who asked to come back ?That would be a no .
Can you tell me any who had to fight WM EVEN when they had a mandate ? NO
Can you tell me why that is the case?

Grantanow

I wouldn't hold my breath for any improvement. Sturgeon and the SNP know there are no votes in prisons policy and they are completely obsessed with the independence delusion.

There's no sense in blaming the First Minister and her government. All governments, of all persuasions, know there are few votes to be had in prison reform. There's too many voters whose attitude is "lock 'em up and throw away the key" and governments know that being 'soft' on prisoners is a massive vote loser.

What gets forgotten is that punishment by imprisonment is actually loss of liberty, not being shut up in a brutally unpleasant environment. A decent prison environment isn't "cushy". Loss of liberty means the prisoner can't go to the pub, or the football match, or see their families very often. Any government that grasped the nettle on this issue will get at least considered for my vote.

Casdon: I made no comparison between deaths in Scottish prisons and those in the rest of the UK in any of my posts. You should read more carefully so as not to misrepresent my observations.

Actually maybe Cathymac didn't post it either. I shouldn't post while I'm watching Gogglebox. 😜