At last ... a plan. Gordon Brown's constitutional review revealed

Constitutional reform.

Maybe that will be Starmers Waterloo it is going to be very contentious, the right wing media are going to have a field day with horror scenarios.

varian

A good start would be to make the Labour Party democratic and promote the most popular motion at this year'as Labour Party conference - to change our system for electing MPs from First Past The Post to Proportional Representation/.

If Keir Starmer will not prioritise this he is ignoring the will of his party members and showing that he is not any kind of a democrat.

varian you say the same at every possible opportunity, but it is a Lib Dem policy, not a Labour policy - and it is not the most urgent or important thing on the agenda of the next government when the country is in the current state. It’s nothing to do with Keir Starmer being a democratic politician, it simply isn’t the top of the list.

A good start would be to make the Labour Party democratic and promote the most popular motion at this year'as Labour Party conference - to change our system for electing MPs from First Past The Post to Proportional Representation/.

If Keir Starmer will not prioritise this he is ignoring the will of his party members and showing that he is not any kind of a democrat.

welshwife and many freeloaders like Michelle Mone who is £29 million in profit from the useless PPE she "supplied" and who said on Twitter to an MP who was angry about it that he was just a uselss MP who could be voted out and SHE was there for life....Is THAT the kind of governance you like?.She's not the only freeloader in the HOL ,There are many who sign in and have a sleep at £300+ a DAY its nice work if you can get it
.One who I personally know boasts it takes his wife and him on at least 3 "quality" cruises a year and all he needs is to sign in ...not stay and not speak on anything .

If it is an elected second chamber who is likely to put themselves forward and how long would they serve? It is a very big thing to change it and needs a lot of thought and consultation.
The Lords may well not be perfect but it is made up of many experienced politicians and once there they can be honest as there is no worry about losing their seats etc. We do see that elected members of the HoC vote and behave in certain ways as they are worried about losing their jobs at the next election.
Not easy to find a good balanced solution.

62Granny

If the Lords is being done away with , why is a second chamber needed? I don't see the point of adding another level of government that isn't really needed.

but surely we need a body that does actually look at what is being proposed with due diligence before passed onto the statute.

To be honest, that's what MPs and the parliamentary select committees are supposed to do.

Never, ever confuse 'the government' with Parliament. The 'government', in our constitution, represents the crown, as ruler of the country. Parliament is the law making body, consisting of the Commons and the Lords. It is their job to scrutinise proposed legislation, make amendments they think necessary, and say whether or not it should become law.

Because 'the government' is usually compiled from members of the party which wins the most seats in the Commons, with a commons majority they can 'pass' any legislation they want, regardless of its quality, necessity or effect on the country and its citizens. The second chamber, the Lords, is more broadly balanced in the spread of partisan members and Independents. They are also free to scrutinise and amend legislation and can even hold up its passage (if it doesn't relate to a manifesto item).

At present, our House of Lords is our protection against the excesses of our far right government; the government commons majority is too big and the government has both manipulated the Common's timetable to minimise scrutiny of proposed legislation and bypassed it altogether if it possible can.

That's why we need a second, less partisan, legislative chamber.

Good idea to reform the H of Ls. Not going to be quick though. I can just imagine the legal palaver that'll be involved. Get on with it asap.

A second chamber is absolutely needed . A government with a large majority could simply enact any damn thing without any recourse.
I am not in favour of the Lords as it stands but surely we need a body that does actually look at what is being proposed with due diligence before passed onto the statute.

62Granny

If the Lords is being done away with , why is a second chamber needed? I don't see the point of adding another level of government that isn't really needed.

To hold the Government of the day to account.

Thank you for the useful links Ashcombe

If the Lords is being done away with , why is a second chamber needed? I don't see the point of adding another level of government that isn't really needed.

GrannyGravy13

I have listened to Mr Starmer today, the House of Lords does need reforming I agree.

The one thing that caught my ear in a worrying way was the devolving of more powers to local authorities. Is this a get out of jail card for a Labour Government to say it wasn’t me guv it was them ?

I’ll read the report - hopefully later - and get back.

DaisyAnne

volver he did say that they believe everything could be accomplished in a parliament which I assume means five years.

He didn't say what "everything" (my word) was though. I think that may be a little while coming as the Labour Party decides.

I agree DaisyAnne, but that's not the same as committing, which is what many of the headlines say.

I have listened to Mr Starmer today, the House of Lords does need reforming I agree.

The one thing that caught my ear in a worrying way was the devolving of more powers to local authorities. Is this a get out of jail card for a Labour Government to say it wasn’t me guv it was them ?

volver he did say that they believe everything could be accomplished in a parliament which I assume means five years.

He didn't say what "everything" (my word) was though. I think that may be a little while coming as the Labour Party decides.

MaizieD

I think this might be the actual report:

labour.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/Commission-on-the-UKs-Future.pdf

155 pages long. Enjoy...

I should have known you would track it down Maizie. Thank you.

I think it may be this evenings reading though.

I think we should be careful about thinking that Sir Keir has pledged to abolish the HoL in his first term.

Sir Keir told BBC Breakfast the unelected second chamber was "indefensible", and added that a Labour government would abolish it and replace it with an elected body "with a strong mission" - but did not provide an exact timeframe.

I think this might be the actual report:

labour.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/Commission-on-the-UKs-Future.pdf

155 pages long. Enjoy...

No, I agree. Would that I had his academic talent.

Thank you for the link

Your wish won’t come true DaisyAnne, but you can try.
Here’s the latest I’ve seen.
news.sky.com/story/sir-keir-starmer-pledges-to-abolish-house-of-lords-in-first-term-as-prime-minister-12762032
I don’t think pondering is what Gordon Brown has been doing, for what it’s worth.

Casdon

Urmstongran

There's never been a problem that Gordon Brown's pondering couldn't make worse...

Give us a few examples?

I know you just replied Casdon but is it really worth bothering with someone quoting a very old meme, enticing others to have yet another brawl.

It would be really nice to keep this factual at least until we know what is being said. How about UG starting another thread for the usual out of date brawling?

I, for one, would be very grateful.

Thank you Ashcombe

Urmstongran

There's never been a problem that Gordon Brown's pondering couldn't make worse...

Give us a few examples?

I don't think it would stop us changing the way we elect our government and may even be a way into PR varian. It could be used for the election of the new Upper House in the first instance.

I also think there is a way to go until Labour has decided what, of the paper, they are going to go forward with. Personally, I am still trying to track the paper down so I can read it and will try not to form views until I have done that and read what Labour, as a party, has to say about it.

The most important constitutional reform, which was supported by a huge majority at this years Labour Party conference is to change the way we elect our government to become a true democracy, not a sham democracy like Belarus, the only other European country to use First Padst The Post.

Do Labour intend to transform the UK into a democracy - where a government can only be elected by a Majority of those who vote?

I haven't seen any mention of changing the voting system from FPTP to PR.