Let's turn the clock back to 1948

P.S I rarely make cottage pie and it certainly wouldn't be 'gloopy'.

Do you honestly think that what a 14 year old learns at school about meal planning is remembered 10 (or more) years later,

No, I don't, really, but you never know what gets dredged up from the memory years later. I certainly don't think they're going put together bits from various different lessons and have a eureka moment when it all comes together...

I do think that children should get the opportunity to learn to cook from scratch, for the reasons I've already stated.

growstuff

Do you honestly think that what a 14 year old learns at school about meal planning is remembered 10 (or more) years later, when young people start families and have to cook within a budget?

I am absolutely amazed that my family didn't starve, if school cookery lessons are so important! I have never had a cookery lesson in my life (nor had my ex husband). My mother was an appalling cook and I can't think of one thing I had to eat as a child which I still make.

I learnt to cook by following Delia Smith's original recipes in the Evening Standard, reading a couple of basic books and, later, by learning about my own diabetic needs by understanding nutrition.

I would far rather young people learnt about healthy living as a holistic theme, to include exercise as an enjoyable rather than competitive activity and understanding good mental health. IMO basic first aid would be more useful than cookery.

Yours is one view though growstuff, not ‘the truth’, because there isn’t a right or wrong. For what it’s worth, yes I do think certain things stick in peoples heads from school, not necessarily the stuff you would expect either. They know they will be responsible for cooking and living healthily when they are older, and many take more notice for that reason - and they like the practical side too, with an end product the family (or the school bus) can eat.

growstuff

PS. I loathe cottage pie and any "stew" thickened with flour.

My cottage pie is not gloopy.

That's why I dislike M&S and other readymade ones.

PS. I loathe cottage pie and any "stew" thickened with flour.

Do you honestly think that what a 14 year old learns at school about meal planning is remembered 10 (or more) years later, when young people start families and have to cook within a budget?

I am absolutely amazed that my family didn't starve, if school cookery lessons are so important! I have never had a cookery lesson in my life (nor had my ex husband). My mother was an appalling cook and I can't think of one thing I had to eat as a child which I still make.

I learnt to cook by following Delia Smith's original recipes in the Evening Standard, reading a couple of basic books and, later, by learning about my own diabetic needs by understanding nutrition.

I would far rather young people learnt about healthy living as a holistic theme, to include exercise as an enjoyable rather than competitive activity and understanding good mental health. IMO basic first aid would be more useful than cookery.

My son must have been one of the last generation to actually choose just cooking GCSE, tho he was academic/maths. He adored it and is now a super cook. I too loved it at school, my mum didnt have time to teach us but after school lessons I always cooked Sunday dinner. The glory of what I had - whole afternoons in the cookery room (yes only girls) and another sewing. Nutrition came with it as in balanced diet for both of us tho a lot more would be included now. Neither of us learnt how to deep fry - whether that was health, or health and safety, is another matter.

Children do not need to know how to make gloopy cottage pie to understand the importance of the three macro ingredients plus vitamins and minerals and the overuse of sugar and salt.

If they don't know how to make it, growstuff, how are they going to avoid the excessive amounts of salt, sugar and fats that tend to be found in commercial manufactured dishes? The government is highly unlikely to regulate these. The only way to avoid them is to cook it yourself.

And as you yourself pointed out, not everyone's parent/s have great cooking skills to pass on.

I think that there is a problem with transference of learning from one subject to another. I've heard plenty of teachers tear their hair out over it! Will what is being taught about nutrition in science transfer to meal planning and preparation?

Nutrition is included in the science curriculum. Children do not need to know how to make gloopy cottage pie to understand the importance of the three macro ingredients plus vitamins and minerals and the overuse of sugar and salt.

"Healthy eating" is a theme included in many subjects - including foreign languages! In my experience, it's a cue for switching off for most pupils - they've had enough of it!

If the aim is to improve future health, there are many other issues involved.

Cooking plays only a small part in healthy living.

For anybody who is interested, this is the statutory guidance for "Physical health and mental wellbeing (Primary and secondary)" (for England).

www.gov.uk/government/publications/relationships-education-relationships-and-sex-education-rse-and-health-education/physical-health-and-mental-wellbeing-primary-and-secondary

It covers a range of issues about physical health and mental wellbeing.

growstuff

I wouldn't wast school curriculum time on cooking.

It's not just cooking, though, as Mamie has pointed out.

It's learning about health and nutrition, applied science and a basis for future healthy eating.

It is the Design and Technology curriculum, more wide ranging than just cookery.
There is usually a choice after Y9 and it is not compulsory either.

Some children will learn from their parents, others may be brought up on a diet of chips and ketchup at home.

For those who are interested the whole curriculum is here.
assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/239089/SECONDARY_national_curriculum_-_Design_and_technology.pdf

It is the Design and Technology curriculum.
Here is the relevant Key Stage 3 statutory requirement.

 understand and apply the principles of nutrition and health
 cook a repertoire of predominantly savoury dishes so that they are able to feed
themselves and others a healthy and varied diet
 become competent in a range of cooking techniques [for example, selecting and preparing ingredients; using utensils and electrical equipment; applying heat in different ways; using awareness of taste, texture and smell to decide how to season dishes and combine ingredients; adapting and using their own recipes]
 understand the source, seasonality and characteristics of a broad range of ingredients.

Even back in the 19th century basic domestic skills formed a key part of the school curriculum. Yes , they were sex based. Girls learnt cookery needlework and the essence of laundry and cleaning. Most girls left school to work in domestic service and they had the skills for that - and for running their own home later. Boys learnt woodwork and metal work, and their purpose was the same to help them get work when they left school and have the practical skills useful later in a home.

Being job ready has always been at the heart of formal education and it just shows how wealthy so many people are that they can disdain anything on the school curriculum that is aimed at helping children get jobs and start life ready and able to stand on their own two feet and support themselves.

Of course some children were badly taught or did not address themselves to learning. That will always apply. It does now, when these domestic skills are no longer on the curriculum.

My own and my family's experience is of how bad cookery education is. My first secondary school was excellent but after 2 terms we moved and in my next school it was poorly taught, mainly making cakes and biscuits to sell in the tuck shop and if you were in the academic stream stopped around 14.

By the time DD got to secondary school, it was now Home Economics and was as much desk and book learning as practical cooking. For DGC cooking is subsumed in to Craft, Design and Technology (CDT), where they do a term of cookery now and again.

growstuff

I think you are a tad optimistic about what children actually take away from lessons in school and retain for when such skills might come in handy.

How about they learn to read cookery books and the umpteen websites which provide hints about budget cooking? It's not rocket science.

I think you're equally optimistic to think that all children are autodidacts...

Or that they will learn to read...

PS. I don't think schools should provide just skills for a job either.

PPS. I learnt how to cook revolting and stodgy food from mother.

I think you are a tad optimistic about what children actually take away from lessons in school and retain for when such skills might come in handy.

How about they learn to read cookery books and the umpteen websites which provide hints about budget cooking? It's not rocket science.

growstuff

I wouldn't wast school curriculum time on cooking.

If ready meals and takeaways are a child's normal fare how are they going to learn anything about basic nutrition, food preparation and storage, except at school?
Some of us learned from our mothers (or maybe even fathers). I had an older sister who trained as a domestic science teacher and passed on some knowledge to me and I also did a catering course, which included a food hygiene certificate. I think I was lucky. Not everyone had our advantages. How could they pass on anything to their children? It seems to me that a decent domestic science course at school, for both sexes, might be their only opportunity to learn.

I don't think that some basic instruction is a waste of school time, any more than is art, sport and music...or even 'citizenship'. Surely education should teach skills for life, not just for a job.

I wouldn't wast school curriculum time on cooking.

I didn't have any cookery lessons in secondary school either (1966-1973) and I'm an adequate cook and have a pretty good idea about nutrition. My children had a handful of lessons in the first year of secondary school and can both cook, especially my son, who is far more adventurous than I am.

Casdon

Both my children learned to cook at school Monica, one is now thirties, the other twenties - and the current pupils at their schools still learn up to year 9, with the option to do GCSE (or whatever it’s called now). They are both more interested, and better, cooks than I am. I don’t know if this is unusual, I’m in Wales.

Mine all had Home Economics lessons at school. They can all cook.

I didn't have any cookery lessons (or Domestic Science as it was called then) at school 60+ years ago.

Both my children learned to cook at school Monica, one is now thirties, the other twenties - and the current pupils at their schools still learn up to year 9, with the option to do GCSE (or whatever it’s called now). They are both more interested, and better, cooks than I am. I don’t know if this is unusual, I’m in Wales.

You can eat well whether you are well off or not. A diet high in fruit and, especially vegetables, especially if you shop in a market is not expensive. Use cheaper cuts of meat and make stews and casseroles, which I have always done, regardless of income. Beans, pulses.

I am, of course not talking about those who are in dire poverty or needing to use food banks, but those who can afford to feed themselves. For these families their biggest hurdle is that they cannot cook and do not know how to make the best of affordable foods that need to be cooked from scratch. They have grown up shopping for ready prepared foods. Meat all butchered to perfection : no fat, no chopping, fruit and veg all perfect. You can also see this on GN with threads on the safety of food, that has been cooked and in the fridge for less than a day, or cooked and cooled. It seems many members have no instinctive feel for when food is fresh or not, and what it s safe to do or not do.

All this is not a criticism of people. It is a statement of fact and it results from schools ceasing to teach cooking at school as long as 40 years ago. Cookery should be brought back into schools, with children taught the basic cooking techniques, understanding of different foods and their preservation and the basics and an understanding of safe food handling.

I'm a bit distressed to see some comments on here about nutrition. I was told by a GP (who was re-training as a dietician/nutritionist) that food/diet should always be the FIRST TREATMENT for any illness. I've made it my business to read all the information and research I can (and I do have a Diploma in nutrition, for what worth) and as far as I know there is no basis for saying meat and dairy are life-threatening. Quite the opposite. Full fat milk is much better for the absorption of calcium and other nutrients. It's all about moderation and quality. Refined sugar, on the other hand, is life-threatening in excess, as are most processed foods. Those of us who grew up in the 1950s are fortunate because we were given certain basic food supplements (cod liver oil - ugh!) and the food we had was good quality with fewer additives.

Insisting on everything being 'evidence-based' merely plays into the hands of those vested interests (food and drug companies) who can afford the research (which they then tweak, if possible, to further their ends). There is a place here for intuition and good old common-sense. Have a diet with plenty of fresh vegetables, fruit, carefully-sourced meat and fish, free-range eggs etc. - oh, and get fresh air, exercise and plenty of sleep. Unfortunately too many people can only afford junk food, resulting in a downward spiral for their health. But if you can afford to eat well and are fit enough to walk 10,000 steps a day, do it.

I didn't equate them with each other in form.

MOnica, you were talking about them in identical terms. e,g. if we increase our spending we have got to find ways to get the cash to pay for it. That's looking at it in the same way as a household economy. A country with a sovereign fiat currency is not cash limited in any way.

I'm afraid I don't subscribe to the FT, much as I would like to be able to afford to. Perhaps you could give us an outline of his rationale for citing the 2008 QE as the cause of inflation now. I am well aware that it caused financial asset price inflation, and affected the housing market, but they aren't included in the calculation of domestic inflation.