Let's turn the clock back to 1948

Well, I think you only have to look at contemporary USA to see how it would be different for those at the bottom end of the wealth distribution scale. And their average life expectancy rates...

Also, many of us probably wouldn't be still alive now to discuss this if it hadn't been for the NHS.

I know I wouldn't be alive. I had bacterial meningitis as a child and I'm a heart attack survivor. On the positive side, I wouldn't have been alive to get cancer and I wouldn't have had to be paid a state pension.

I wouldn’t be here

I have been resuscitated twice due to severe asthma, and hospitalised more times than I can remember due to asthma flare-ups, along with three difficult births.

I was born 6th July 1948 so I’ve only known life with the NHS I can’t even imagine how different things would be without it. So thanks to Welsh MP Aneurin Bevin without our wonderful NHS things would be so different.

Don't forget William Beveridge.

Don’t forget that you or your parents would be paying into some form of health insurance.

The question is - could they or yourself afford it.

If you were employed in a poorly paid job, without a health scheme you would be in real difficulties.

What we would have is a country who was divided into those confident that they would be given good health care if they got I’ll and those who couldn’t.

I’d hate to live in that sort of country.

growstuff they both played a major part in the set up.

We all paid into the HSA then which gave you some money when you had a hospital stay.
Other than that the emphasis was on prevention. Cod liver oil and malt was a staple in the morning. Underclothes were warm and often wool. Food was considered another part of the prevention process. More people died as antibiotics were only in their infancy. I had scarlet fever which was treated by a stay in hospital or the patient was (in my case) “washed by a nurse” every day and our flat was fumigated after my recovery.

I think that people who paid National Insurance were entitled to limited medical care, but that excluded the unemployed and many women. There were also some local schemes and charity hospitals, but it was all very patchy. I don't think drugs were usually provided without cost.

Also doctors were paid for a visit.

The healthcare system in the USA looks a scary business but in Europe there is a good workable way which is inclusive.

I think the NHS are fantastic and deserve to be treated better. In all the years that I worked at our local hospital I never had a pay rise.

halfpint1

The healthcare system in the USA looks a scary business but in Europe there is a good workable way which is inclusive.

Indeed, but people in other European countries still pay compulsory health insurance (more than we do in the UK) and the systems are in many ways similar to the NHS, although funded by government supported insurance companies.

When I started the thread, I was thinking more of a situation where there was no national system. There would still be hospitals and medical staff and some people would pay into local schemes, but there would be no national strategies or guarantees.

Lovetopaint037

We all paid into the HSA then which gave you some money when you had a hospital stay.
Other than that the emphasis was on prevention. Cod liver oil and malt was a staple in the morning. Underclothes were warm and often wool. Food was considered another part of the prevention process. More people died as antibiotics were only in their infancy. I had scarlet fever which was treated by a stay in hospital or the patient was (in my case) “washed by a nurse” every day and our flat was fumigated after my recovery.

My mother used to tell horror stories about the things her mother used to make her eat and drink to ward off illness.

In 1949, when I was nine, I had dangerous mastoiditis and was rushed to hospital as an emergency. Legend has it that the consultant left an official dinner, still in evening dress, to operate on me. I was very ill and remained in hospital for quite a long time.

My parents kept saying “Thank goodness for the National Health”. Of course I had no idea what they meant.

My brother was born in a private nursing home. I was born at home and had a private nurse for a month. My parents would have been stretched by the cost, but they could manage it. I don’t know what childbirth was like if you couldn’t pay for help.

Let’s not reach for the rose tinted glasses though.
It might also be useful, but depressing, to compare the situation today with the “cradle to grave” aspirations of the NHS’s founding fathers.
While nobody could have foreseen the astronomical rise in the price of treatments as those did not exist in 1948, and being committed to treat every body to the best of doctors’ ability must go hand in hand with a similar commitment to keeping up with costs. The change in the demographic has also played a significant part.
I feel it’s like “good news, bad news” when a revolutionary breakthrough in eg cancer treatment is announced, but cancer diagnoses are taking longer than ever, often precluding even the most rudimentary treatment.

MawtheMerrier

Let’s not reach for the rose tinted glasses though.
It might also be useful, but depressing, to compare the situation today with the “cradle to grave” aspirations of the NHS’s founding fathers.
While nobody could have foreseen the astronomical rise in the price of treatments as those did not exist in 1948, and being committed to treat every body to the best of doctors’ ability must go hand in hand with a similar commitment to keeping up with costs. The change in the demographic has also played a significant part.
I feel it’s like “good news, bad news” when a revolutionary breakthrough in eg cancer treatment is announced, but cancer diagnoses are taking longer than ever, often precluding even the most rudimentary treatment.

They weren’t in 2010. That has only happened since the Tories reduced the funding.

I'm not wearing rose tinted glasses Maw. Cancer deaths have risen since 1948, but that's because age is a factor in cancer and people are living longer. In the past, many people didn't reach old age.

We can't compare the NHS today with 1948. People are living longer and there are many more treatments available, some of which are expensive. I think we have to be realistic about that and accept that if we want more, we have to pay more. the issue is whether those treatments should be available to all or just those who can afford to pay. We already have health inequality because poorer people tend to be less well nourished, live in inadequate housing, do more dangerous jobs and have more mental health issues. There are people who object to preventative measures being directed to people who can't afford to contribute that much.

Grandma70s

Here are some stats for baby deaths:

Infant mortality (under 1 year) per 1000 live births (England and Wales)

1948: 34.5
2016: 3.6

Neonatal mortality (under 1 month) per 1000 live births

1948: 19.8
2016: 2.7

Stillbirths per 1000 live births

1948: 23.2
2016: 4.4

www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/files/2018-07/facts-and-figs-website.pdf

PS. I was actually looking for the number of women who died in childbirth, but haven't found them yet.

I was getting worried by the way the NHS appears to be being deliberately run down by this government and so I got some quotes for private medical insurance from Saga and Bupa. They started at around £600 per month!!! I hope everyone does everything within their power to ensure that the NHS can continue as a free service and crucially get this government out of power.

While nobody could have foreseen the astronomical rise in the price of treatments as those did not exist in 1948, and being committed to treat every body to the best of doctors’ ability must go hand in hand with a similar commitment to keeping up with costs.

Your last sentence is very pertinent, Maw.

While people refuse to believe that state investment in the NHS is a positive for the economy this will always be a sticking point. Even more so when a government is bent on shrinking 'the state' and putting our money into the hands of private healthcare providers.

growstuff Thank you those statistics. Alarming. I doubt if my brother, a forceps delivery, would have survived if my parents hadn’t been able (just) to pay for a doctor.

pascal30

I was getting worried by the way the NHS appears to be being deliberately run down by this government and so I got some quotes for private medical insurance from Saga and Bupa. They started at around £600 per month!!! I hope everyone does everything within their power to ensure that the NHS can continue as a free service and crucially get this government out of power.

Did you look up quotes for funerals too? I think I'd be likely to need one because I couldn't afford £600 a month!

We must not only protect the NHS at all costs and resist any attempts to privatise it, but call for it to be properly funded. Yes, it has changed out of all recognition since it was founded in 1948, but we need only cast our eyes across the Atlantic to see what a privatised healthcare system could mean. Does anyone seriously think it would be better to have that kind of system, where those who could afford it would still have a decent level of healthcare, but those who could not would be left to suffer?