Let's turn the clock back to 1948

MaizieD

Well, I think you only have to look at contemporary USA to see how it would be different for those at the bottom end of the wealth distribution scale. And their average life expectancy rates...

Also, many of us probably wouldn't be still alive now to discuss this if it hadn't been for the NHS.

That of course is the worst possibity, but there would have been other options.

Most European countries have health schemes that in part depend on citizens' own insurance policy, and partly on state contributions.

Denmark, and I believe the other Scandinavian countries had until about 1970 a similar health insurance scheme, then changed it to one that is entirely state funded. Obviously, we contribute to it through our taxes, as we do to free education from kindergarten to university.

Certainly, life in the UK would have been different without the NHS, but not neccessarily as dire as the U.S. system.

Speaking as the daughter of a British G.P. I can assure you that doctors with an average sized practice were poorly paid and over-worked in the 1950s to 1980s when my father was practising medicine, so the NHS was never as wonderful as some of you seem to believe.

My parents had a struggle to make ends meet, so did many other doctors, as well as nurses, midwives and health visitors, although from what I can gather, seen from the patient's point of view the health service then probably was more satisfactory than now.

My grandfather was a small shop-keeper. Upon his retirement, even after the founding of the NHS he still paid for a private doctor.
He had turned down a state pension saying he had saved for his own old age and the state should apply resources to the treatment of' the poor people"

In the late 1940s I remember a chauffered Rolls Royce turning up at the gate of grandad's semi-detached house.... a doctor emerged wearing a top hat. He was the local g.p.
When I asked why this ostentatious man had been called, Grandad said he was happy to pay as the money he had saved for his old age and paid out for a private doctor even allowed this same doctor to visit patients by day or night without making any charge if the people were in need

Well the big institutions like lunatic asylums would still be in place as that was the only place for mentally ill. How awful is that thought. Private health care is unaffordable for a lot of people so the NHS is a lifesaver the people who work in it deserve a fair living wage.

That's easy to answer. My husband would have died aged 3 as there would have been no penicillin to defeat the TB!

Joni Mitchell's, 'You don't what you've got till it's gone', springs to mind.

makes it inconceivable that the NHS should be able to function as when it was first inaugurated-in fact from the start there were complaints of inadequate funding.

There was 'inadequate funding' because the founders of the NHS hadn't realised just how much illness went untreated before the inception of the NHS. It was, in a way, a victim of its own success, not only in treating those who would not previously have been able to afford treatment and by implementing improved treatments as they were discovered. The population began to live longer, so using more NHS services and there was a bit of a baby boom (unforeseen?) after the war. There were more people to treat than initailly envisaged.

However, inadequate funding shouldn't mean rationing treatment or forcing people to go private (if they can afford to) , it means that funding should be increased to cater for increased demand.

The NHS is a very significant contributor to the national economy. It sustains the private enterprises that supply it directly (for, don't forget, the state produces nothing in the way of the goods and services needed by the NHS) and it sustains all the enterprises that its employees spend their money in. Cutting funding to the NHS is one of the reasons why we had to endure 'austerity' and why we're now facing a depression.

The state isn't in the least bit like a household or a company which has a finite amount of money to spend; it can, and does, create its own money. Leaving aside foreign investment and revenue from exports, all our money has been issued by the state. And, as it is circulated through the domestic economy, most of it is taxed back to the Treasury. There is no good reason why the state cannot adequately fund the NHS. The country isn't 'broke', it's not short of money.

I suggest you read the thread about looking at public sector pay down the wrong end of the telescope; even following the link to the economist's blog post. It's very informative.

I was born four years before the birth of the NHS. I remember as a child hearing my parents talking about how wonderful it was to have the NHS and reminiscing about the days when they couldn't afford to call a doctor out. I once had a neighbour who was a doctor in the pre-NHS days and he told the story of going out to a sick child. Whilst in the house he heard someone in another room with a dreadful cough. The family said it was Grandfather but please not to look at him as they could only afford to pay the doctor for the child's treatment. My kindly neighbour treated both of them for the price of one. Imagine having to choose who in your family you could afford to get treatment for. So please, let's not turn back the clock to 1948 - we must fight in whatever way we can to save our NHS.

growstuff some amazing stats there. I wouldn’t be here - my mother had a long and difficult labour requiring an Obstetric flying squad to save both our lives. I had scarlet fever at around 18 months.

We’ve all got a lot to be grateful for.

Sawsage2

In the Bible it states 'man will live 3 score years and 10. (70). So it's pretty much the same now as 1000s of years ago. I don't like or trust doctors/hospitals etc and avoid them as much as I can.(I worked with them for nearly 40 years)

That's your choice. Personally, I'm grateful to have options.

Amalegra

The demographic in the UK has changed drastically since 1948 plus the huge advances in treatments and drugs available makes it inconceivable that the NHS should be able to function as when it was first inaugurated-in fact from the start there were complaints of inadequate funding. We should remember that the seeds for a national healthcare plan was first conceived by a Tory government under a sort of private/public system similar to successful European ones today which we should perhaps be looking to for a way forward. Also modern ‘epidemics’ caused by lifestyle factors like obesity add to the burden. This is not a quick fix and it is impossible to return to 1948. Rationing, slums, no modern conveniences-I would not want to be there again!

Which parts of the system you envisage would be private? Do you mean that some services would be provided by private companies (which we already have)? Or do you mean that there would be basic healthcare (A and E, treating infections. vaccinations, etc) and people would pay for anything extra?

In the Bible it states 'man will live 3 score years and 10. (70). So it's pretty much the same now as 1000s of years ago. I don't like or trust doctors/hospitals etc and avoid them as much as I can.(I worked with them for nearly 40 years)

The demographic in the UK has changed drastically since 1948 plus the huge advances in treatments and drugs available makes it inconceivable that the NHS should be able to function as when it was first inaugurated-in fact from the start there were complaints of inadequate funding. We should remember that the seeds for a national healthcare plan was first conceived by a Tory government under a sort of private/public system similar to successful European ones today which we should perhaps be looking to for a way forward. Also modern ‘epidemics’ caused by lifestyle factors like obesity add to the burden. This is not a quick fix and it is impossible to return to 1948. Rationing, slums, no modern conveniences-I would not want to be there again!

Dollypollylolly

Nan99

Unfortunately, the doctors in NHS are not taught anything about nutrition. If more people were told about how life-threatening it can be to eat meat, dairy, and eggs. Cows milk is for calves, not people. Going plant-based can reverse heart disease, diabetes, and other autoimmune diseases. The more people ate this way the NHS would not have so many sick people to look after. The NHS only tries to cure instead of prevent. Also NHS needs a good shake up because I don't think it is run as efficiently as it should be.
Let food be thy medicine and medicine be thy food, Hippocrates.

Plant based for diabetes what absolute rubbish. I can’t eat pasta and rice as that’s the main staple of a plant based diet as I’d be on insulin which I’ve avoided by not eating them along with other foods that spike me.

Plus don’t get me started on the eat well guide

Both my mother and I would of died giving birth to me if there was no NHS as she was classed as poor and very little money. So I wouldn’t of had two younger brothers.

I couldn't agree with you more. I have T2 diabetes and plant-based foods spike my blood sugar levels. I don't eat bread, pasta, rice, potatoes, cake, pastry, porridge, cereals, most fruit. I eat lentils, pulses and root veg in moderation. Plants are made up of carbs, which is what diabetics need to avoid.

I am being treated for metastatic breast cancer. I researched the cost of the drugs I am given and I would be totally unable to afford the nearly £3000 per month cost - to say nothing of doctor and nurse time, scans etc. Without the NHS I would very likely be dead by now.

Having had 2 cancers, a hip replacement, COPD, a hiatus hernia to name but a few I doubt I'd still be here. Neither would at least 2 of my children, I couldn't have afforded to have them in the first place.

I think the NHS has gone downhill and is mismanaged, it is no longer National, it is divided into smaller businesses that is often in parts farmed out to money making companies. It requires a complete overhaul, not the fault of the on the ground employees, they do the best they can in an impossible situtaion.

Nan99

Unfortunately, the doctors in NHS are not taught anything about nutrition. If more people were told about how life-threatening it can be to eat meat, dairy, and eggs. Cows milk is for calves, not people. Going plant-based can reverse heart disease, diabetes, and other autoimmune diseases. The more people ate this way the NHS would not have so many sick people to look after. The NHS only tries to cure instead of prevent. Also NHS needs a good shake up because I don't think it is run as efficiently as it should be.
Let food be thy medicine and medicine be thy food, Hippocrates.

Plant based for diabetes what absolute rubbish. I can’t eat pasta and rice as that’s the main staple of a plant based diet as I’d be on insulin which I’ve avoided by not eating them along with other foods that spike me.

Plus don’t get me started on the eat well guide

Both my mother and I would of died giving birth to me if there was no NHS as she was classed as poor and very little money. So I wouldn’t of had two younger brothers.

100% agree! Worst thing ever was to release the social care contracts on open market so many companies are greedy unfit to practice or downright criminal employing revolting people at basic wages in some resulting in some of the worst cases of abuse ever seen! Social care should be back I. Hands of local authorities with proper monitoring safe checking and decent salaries for the wonderful people who do the job properly. We were charged an obscene £1200+ for DM care, company eventually went bust (!?) After being told time and again to implement the proper rules and procedures and never doing so.too many massive companies see care as big fat cash cow! Shame on us as a society for allowing this to be happening. We don't value the elderly so no pay for home caring, forcing selling of all we've worked for to fund some fat so and SO's filthy rich lifestyle. The good caring decent homes are strangled for funds too, they're probably too honest! Rant over.......

Harry Leslie Smith who died a few years ago in his 90's writes about pre-nhs, he remembered hearing someone dying from pain in the last days of cancer screaming as she couldn't afford morphine. I don't want that for anyone.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29345395

google him if that link doesn't work

Iam64

Apologies for posting too quickly. This is one of the reasons our family donate to the SA. The other is it’s work with people on the margins. Imagine being homeless and sick in this cold weather. Thank goodness for the SA and other charities providing warmth and food. Thank goodness the nhs will treat these people in need

Thank goodness for the SA I also always donate and have them on my PayPal account as chosen charity.i round up every transaction to pound/fiver and donate to SA they do astonishing work with missing persons too. They're people who dedicate their whole lives to their work, safe honest and tirelessly working without seeking praise or favour. (Great bands too!)

I too support the social work of the Sally Ann with down and outs. It's a disgrace that the poorest homeless have to rely on a charitable body in a wealthy country like the UK. If the right wing Tories get their way there will be no NHS and people will either have to pay or rely on charity. Social care is a complete mess run largely for profit.

My grandfather worked in petticoat lane pre1948, he contracted septa semia from the fruit crates. There was no free antibiotics - he died aged 39. His son, my uncle contracted polio, no care he was sent to a mental institution at the age of 2! Because my grandmother (now a widow - no social benefits) had to continue working on the fruit and veg market! A widow with 3 children, no NHS, no social care!! Who says things were better in the ‘olden’ days? It was tough, very tough

This government has done more to damage the NHS than any other since 1948. Aneurin Bevan must be revolving in his grave.

I wasn’t born until 1958 so wouldn’t work for me

Apologies for posting too quickly. This is one of the reasons our family donate to the SA. The other is it’s work with people on the margins. Imagine being homeless and sick in this cold weather. Thank goodness for the SA and other charities providing warmth and food. Thank goodness the nhs will treat these people in need

My uncle was born in 1924, in the Salvation Army hospital in the Manchester district where they lived.

Whitewavemark2

Before the NHS your health was defined by your level of wealth. Health insurance existed but it did nothing for the poorest, the unemployed and disabled.

People now live on average 11 more healthy years than before the NHS.

There is no question that a universal health care system is the best thing a country can provide for is citizens.

I completely agree. There is still a very strong correlation between health and wealth, but we are all living much longer and benefiting from the NHS.