Scotland's Gender Recognition Reform Bill to be debated today 20 Dec & voted on 21 Dec

If you think Oreo has posted mis-information, please explain what is actually the case volver.

You assume I'm not in Scotland volver?
You'd be wrong, hence I am very worried about this.

FarNorth

The GRR Bill, if it becomes law, will affect the operation of law in the rest of the UK, and that is why the UK government is considering whether to take any action.

It's therefore perfectly reasonable for people anywhere in the UK to be concerned about it as I'm sure you would be volver if Welsh legislation was going to affect the operation of law in Scotland.

Perhaps its best if we just sail off into the sunset then, and you won't have to worry about it any more.

Or, perhaps rUK could have a look at how they deal with self id'd people from other countries, such as Belgium or Denmark, and just do that?

FarNorth

Oreo

A paedophile who had been convicted could now decide to change gender easily.This would make him both less threatening for any future victims and allow him to access women’s spaces such as changing rooms and a women’s prison if convicted again.Is this right?!

volver your response to this question was
"No. But never mind "

What do you mean by that?

I take it to mean -
"No, it's not right that the GRR has just given that right to known paedophiles, but I don't care and I support the Bill anyway."

Am I right in thinking that's your point?

No, that's not what I meant, I obviously didn't explain myself properly.

Two meanings of "right"; I took it to mean "Is this correct?" Which is isn't, hence my answer of "no."

(As opposed to "is this acceptable?", which I now realise is the intended meaning in this case.)

So "No, its not correct, but never mind because you believe the misinformation that has told you it is and nothing I say will change your mind."

The GRR Bill, if it becomes law, will affect the operation of law in the rest of the UK, and that is why the UK government is considering whether to take any action.

It's therefore perfectly reasonable for people anywhere in the UK to be concerned about it as I'm sure you would be volver if Welsh legislation was going to affect the operation of law in Scotland.

Oreo

A paedophile who had been convicted could now decide to change gender easily.This would make him both less threatening for any future victims and allow him to access women’s spaces such as changing rooms and a women’s prison if convicted again.Is this right?!

volver your response to this question was
"No. But never mind "

What do you mean by that?

I take it to mean -
"No, it's not right that the GRR has just given that right to known paedophiles, but I don't care and I support the Bill anyway."

Am I right in thinking that's your point?

Here's a letter from an MSP to a constituent, explaining why he voted for the GRR Bill.
He was 'just following orders'.

As all the parties, except the Tories, whipped their MSPs i.e. told them how to vote, it doesn't really look very democratic.

.

Oreo

So what?
I do feel sorry for women in Scotland and the fact that the political parties in Holyrood supported this crazy bill will feel to them to have been dumped on them from a great height.
If it happened here I’d feel just the same.

I'm a woman in Scotland. You don't actually know how I feel, sorry to tell you that if it comes as a surprise.

Nobody's dumped on me. Well, nobody Scottish, anyway.

SNP MPs don't attend debates on purely English matters and they don't vote on them. The Scots Tories do.

If anyone is suggesting that its OK for the UK Parliament to overrule the Scottish one on things they don't approve of, then bring it on. 🤣 It's all grist to the mill.

Hey, you’re welcome to have your say on English matters and laws, we’re all part of the UK and long may it continue.

So what?
I do feel sorry for women in Scotland and the fact that the political parties in Holyrood supported this crazy bill will feel to them to have been dumped on them from a great height.
If it happened here I’d feel just the same.

I said: Anybody has a right to comment on anything, of course.

You said: I don’t have to live in Scotland to have my say on this subject thanks.

I know Oreo. I know. 🤦🏼

See, this is what gets me...

We have a democratically elected Parliament, where all but one party (I think) supported the introduction of a bill, but the people who disagree rant about it outside the Parliament engaging in what is essentially hate speech, or aggressively show off their home made "wigs" in Parliament when schoolchildren are present.

Nothings been "dumped on us"; it passed through Parliament and got the support of a majority of MSPs, and no amount of people saying "I don't want it though" is going to change that. No amount of rUK politicians telling Scottish politicians what to do is going to change that either.

So when I see in other places, people saying things like "oh don't worry, women of Scotland, we'll support you. How awful for you to have to live there" I just wonder if they know how patronising they are being.

But if it gets cancelled by the UK Parliament, we'll know where we stand, won't we?

I don’t have to live in Scotland to have my say on this subject thanks.I don’t want the government here to repeat the mistake that’s just been dumped on the Scottish people.

As to snap polls on the death sentence, depends on the group polled and who is holding it. Opinion polls aren’t the same as a referendum. Either way, it will never be up to the population to decide on this.

.

^ This subject is too important for women to be on the fence about or to side with the trans lobby ^

That's just a ridiculous thing to say.

Anyway. Do you live in Scotland Oreo? Anybody has a right to comment on anything, of course. But I don't comment on decisions made by the Welsh Parliament, for instance, because its none of my business. I'm pretty fed up with people who are living in another country holding forth about laws that are made in mine. Disagree with them if you like, but when push come to shove, you don't get a say.

And if you think that people disagree with you on important matters "just to be different", I feel sorry for you. We can do without the personal attacks, thanks.

I strongly doubt the death sentence claim these days.
I don’t comment on issues to get into the barneys that you seem to enjoy on every subject on every thread.You like to be different, I get it.This subject is too important for women to be on the fence about or to side with the trans lobby, so yes, on balance I bet the majority of women are unhappy about it.

You might think so, that's your opinion.

Even if all those things were true, it doesn't justify calling trans people "pedeophiles" just because they are trans.

The majority of women? Really? Have you asked them?

The majority of people probably think we should have the death penalty; that doesn't make it right.

But I do mind, and so do the majority of women.

Also, it was dumb to change the age down to 16, that amendment should have been accepted. 16 is far too young.

No.

But never mind.

A paedophile who had been convicted could now decide to change gender easily.This would make him both less threatening for any future victims and allow him to access women’s spaces such as changing rooms and a women’s prison if convicted again.Is this right?!

I find that this is a Gransnet thing.

"Well they started it! And they're just as bad"

That isn't an excuse and often isn't true either. Calling people paedophiles and asking for them to be arrested is rarely justified, if the person isn't a paedophile.

There are protesters who go too far with insults and placards on both sides.
The fact that the amendment that wanted to exclude sex offenders was thrown out as FarNorth details in her above post led to the taunts about paedophiles I guess.
How that amendment was defeated is just mind boggling.

Sunak is considering it, not preparing to block it.

If his government does block it, prepare yourselves for an almighty constitutional crisis.

Any thoughts among posters about the demonstrations outside Holyrood the other day where trans supporters were called paedophiles and child molesters and somebody had a banner asking Sturgeon if she liked anal? Is that what passes for considered political debate these days?